To be so fucking angry. How many more women and children must die?

[Kianai]

I'd almost become numb to it, with all the news so far this year.

Murder after murder of women and their children. Noone ever seeming to link the common denominator. NAMALT.

This latest one today, I feel like something is beginning to snap inside me. Three babies and a young woman dead, because of a fucking man. Again. And again.

news.sky.com/story/police-launch-murder-investigation-after-woman-and-three-children-die-in-house-fire-in-bradford-13200678

I that post was in response to the 8.17 post by Bodeganights that clearly states that all murders are committed by men.

We could make a nationwide group with the aim to reduce rape and violence against women.

We could do so many things:

Hold talks to increase awareness.
Protest about violence against women
Campaign For changes: ie more education on consent in schools/
More banning of violent porn. More thorough controls on porn sites.

Raise money ourselves to raise money for women's aid

Just to get organised groups nationwide to try to improve women's lives I'm the UK.

But can I ask - who came up with this list?

Different women, over a period of time. I contributed one. They're various descriptions of misogyny, not an 'agenda'.

The first step towards solving a problem is recognising it. We haven't even managed to do that on this board with all the NAMALTing

That and WDIT. Yes, yes, we know, we know those by name. Tedious distractions from getting to the nub of what the fuck we can and should do.
There are various suggestions on this thread. Perhaps it'd be an idea to start a fresh one to discuss specific possible campaigns, info on any existing ones people know about?

Of course it's to do with sex. Women have been systemically subjugated by men for centuries. It's only relatively recently that domestic violence was even considered a crime (1970s), marital rape was outlawed in the 90s because women were considered to be the possessions of men.

Look up the Law of Coverture which enshrined into law a man's ownership of his wife and even outlined permitted physical punishment. Before they were married, women were their father's property.

The West is an outlier when it comes to women's rights and the rise in online misogyny (the manosphere) with the incel movement and people like Andrew Tate, demonstrates how men are fighting back against women's rights.

Look how Trans ideology has been eroding women's legal rights to their own spaces, sports and redefining the word woman. Exemplified by the arrests, deplatforming and firing of women who are speaking up for their sex based rights.

Violence against women and girls is violence because of their sex. Female foetuses and babies are killed because girls are seen as less than boys. Girl's genitals are mutilated because men want to control their sexuality. Underage girls are married to adult men because they are dehumanised. Women and girls are sold or forced into marriage because they are seen as possessions.

But no one ever does anything to try to bring change.

This is laughable. Women have been campaigning for decades to stop violence against women. Lobbying parliament, marching, writing books, campaigning, trying to get laws changed, setting up refuges and domestic abuse organisations, working in developing countries.

Every single advance you've seen in women's rights has been because of women's tireless work.

OK. As I said, this board is extreme and unwelcoming.
I have learned a few things this morning:

1. All men are, apparently, evil and violent.
2. All women are victims.
3. The fact that women do kill is brushed under the carpet because a man was ultimately to blame anyway.
4. We don't like talking about Lucy Letby because there doesn't seem to he any man to blame for her behavior.
5. Anyone who is married to a non-violent man doesn't know what they are talking about.
6. It's nice to have a space where you can make ridiculous claims to an appreciative audience.

I'm out.

Not one person has said any of these, though.

The world is not a safe place. I think it was on MN that I saw the point made that men are womens' biggest predators.

And women don't tend to kill other women, either. You get the odd case where they want to get rid of a rival for a man's affections, so it comes down to the man, again!

And I don't think the conviction of Lucy Letby is sound. That doesn't mean I think she is innocent. I don't know.

And in other cases like Rosemary West or the Moors Murderers, there was a man involved too.

Indeed, I was so angry about that.

@user30 Your list is so accurate, it should be used in schools to teach young and teen boys how not to think, now that misogyny is to be treated as a hate crime…
My question, though, is why so many men? Surely most (statistically) have been brought up by women?
I have one DD and one DS - and DH and I have brought them both up to treat everyone well (and to use logic and reason, not violence, to handle life peacefully), so where is it going so wrong for so many?

I will accept that women are equally violent when a woman goes out to hunt down a man on the streets the way Jordan McSweeney hunted down Zara Alleena on the streets like prey. After stalking some other women first. But who remembers her?

In many cases they are simply valid responses to factually inaccurate comments. For instance Lucy letby, she never needed to be part of this thread however one poster made a stupid comment about murder is only committed by men. A perfectly valid response is the state one murder committed by women in this case Lucy ledby.

Or we could ignore stupid derailing comments and not immediately rush off to prove that women can kill too.

Or we could stick to the facts and not claim that women don't kill too.

Lucy Letby is an absolute anomaly. The man in the OP's post isnt. Unbelievable that a thread about male violence is reduced to talking about Lucy Letby and Rosemary West. They are so rare we know their names. We will never remember the one in the OP because 4 of those happen every week.

Yes. Lucy Letby has no place on this thread. Blame the poster who claimed the all murders are committed by men.

All of the above.

As the mother of a son, both I and his father have tried to raise him by example. One example is that once gym rules say boys are too old to use female changing facilities then they no longer use them, simple as that. The onus is on us to work around this, not on women and girls to shut up, budge over and cede over their space.

There are many, many mothers I see breaking this rule.

Of course I think my delightful 10-year old boy is lovely. He has chores and has not been raised to believe a woman's place is to skivvy after him. They are small examples but, I think, are important. But I also worry very seriously about the kind of influences he'll be exposed to, particularly once he starts secondary school. Parents can do so much but we don't raise kids in a vacuum. Nor can we protect them from the www forever.

The attitude of 'how dare you say these things - my son is wonderful!' Is ultimately not doing boys any favours: it's perpetuating a very entrenched cycle. I love my son
and for that very reason don't want him growing up to be the kind of man who adds to that horrifying statistic. Who would?

Yet the statistic undeniably exists. These men, these perpetrators, were once somebody's beloved little boys: we changed their nappies, watched their first steps, helped them learn to read, nurtured and loved them.

Shoving your fingers in your ears and shouting 'la, la, la, not my Nigel' is going to do nothing to change this state of affairs. It saddens and terrifies me in equal measure.

Anyone can easily read the statistics online for themselves.

Letby et al are the exceptions that prove
the rule. That an exceptionally rare complement of female serial killers exist is not the WDIT disclaimer some people seem to think it is. Statistically, the demographic which commits the overwhelming percentage of violent offending is male.

As for sex offences, that percentage is upward of 98%.

You can argue grass is read all you want to. I believe that is known as 'persistence in the face of all evidence to the contrary'.

It's also a tedious, not to mention predictable, derail.

I see your Lucy Letby and I raise you a Dr Harold Shipman.
I mean, for every whataboutery argument is the cold, hard statistical truth.
The most dangerous person in a woman’s life is her intimate partner.
The greatest killer of pregnant women is her intimate partner.
Women who wear short skirts or walk alone at night are castigated for doing so; they are asking for it.
Women are as safe as their fathers, brothers, boyfriends and husbands allow them to be.
Women have always taken on the great burden of advocating for our own safety. Immediately we hear about how women ‘make up false accusations’ all the time when in fact, the opposite is true.
What needs to happen is that men are held accountable for their actions. Jail, loss of job, loss of reputation, loss of income, loss of social status.
If four men were killed every week due to some specific kind of violence, there would be a parliamentary enquiry and legislative change.
We have seen it here in Australia, where coward punch laws were passed all over the country in response to several fatal attacks late at night in nightclub precincts.
Nobody has seen fit to pass more robust laws which protect women.
I get angrier with every passing year where nothing ever changes.

Yes but the women.must have been hideous themselves to go along with it.
Most normal women would walk away if a partner shggested cruising the streets looming for victims to kill.

It won't change . It's been going on since man walked the earth.

I work with a lovely man. He's kind and generous and lovely colleague to have. When Sarah Everard was killed he said 'What was she doing out on her own at night?'. I despair.
I think that a lot of it is a backlash against feminism. As soon as we begin to rise up they want to put us back in our place, with a boot on our neck.