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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be so fucking angry. How many more women and children must die?

778 replies

Kianai · 21/08/2024 15:40

I'd almost become numb to it, with all the news so far this year.

Murder after murder of women and their children. Noone ever seeming to link the common denominator. NAMALT.

This latest one today, I feel like something is beginning to snap inside me. Three babies and a young woman dead, because of a fucking man. Again. And again.

news.sky.com/story/police-launch-murder-investigation-after-woman-and-three-children-die-in-house-fire-in-bradford-13200678

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:15

Veebee89 · 22/08/2024 08:14

Not all men are like that but it is nearly always men and you have no idea which men. A man’s occupation or family background or public persona doesn’t tell you anything about whether he is violent or has the potential to be, as the people who knew those men I listed could tell you.

Edited
Show quote history

But how is it helpful or getting us anywhere to say that.

It doesn't achieve anything

Hateam · 22/08/2024 08:15

CharlotteRumpling · 22/08/2024 07:30

How on earth do you know that the lovely men in your workplace or your friends are not violent? One of my friends suffered in a DV violence situation for years. None of us knew. Her husband was from that kind of background, charming, well educated, absolutely perfect in person. I knew him well for over 20 years.The last person I would have said was violent.

The case of the Epsom college principal should tell us that violent men are not always whom we think.

Show quote history

How on earth do you know that the lovely women in your workplace or friends are not violent?

As has been pointed out, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. Women committing acts of DV is much more common than is thought especially among lesbian couples.

61% of bisexual women and 44% of lesbian women surveyed in 2013 reported some type of intimate partner violence (IPV) compared to 35% of straight women.

https://www.standffov.org/tdvam/abuse-in-lesbian-relationships/

Food for thought for those posters who hope their daughters become lesbians.

Abuse in Lesbian Relationships | STAND! For Families Free of Violence

https://www.standffov.org/tdvam/abuse-in-lesbian-relationships

Bodeganights · 22/08/2024 08:17

SparklyJadeFawn · 21/08/2024 21:15

Men are murdered every week too. Children are murdered every week too.

Bad things happen all the time.

There are always going to be cruel cold murdering humans around, sadly.

There always has been and there always will be

Show quote history

Men, men are murdering, not humans, just men. Hth

Veebee89 · 22/08/2024 08:18

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:15

But how is it helpful or getting us anywhere to say that.

It doesn't achieve anything

Show quote history

It achieves more than spreading myths that blame the women who are killed for getting involved with “the wrong type of man”, perpetuating stereotypes about “the type of man” we are at risk from and othering victims of domestic abuse by saying that no men that you know would do that. To address the problem we need to be honest about what it is.

DontBiteTheCat · 22/08/2024 08:18

WotsYourExcuse · 21/08/2024 22:44

Can you share your source showing that perpetrators of domestic abuse are mostly women?

There have been many many studies over the years. There's a thread somewhere on here with literally dozens collated. It's only crime stats that show men committing a vastly higher amount.

All the charities state that men hugely under report DV as they're scared of being seen as 'weak' for being abused by a woman (part of toxic masculinity). Lots of data on the Mankind website about this - most of the callers had never previously discussed it and many said they wouldn't have if the service wasn't anonymous.

Another big factor is that the lack of support services for men makes it seem pointless seeking help. It's like how so many women don't report rape because they know it likely won't go anywhere, making rape statistics equally misleading.

I'm not a misogynist or a man or whatever I'll probably be called on here. I've just always looked at both sides and feel this topic is a lot more complex than usually presented.

Anyway, below is some info about the largest DV study ever conducted - a meta review of 1700 previous peer reviewed studies.

From 2010 to 2012, scholars of domestic violence from the U.S., Canada and the U.K. assembled The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge, a research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies - still the largest of its kind. Among its findings:[63]"

  • More women (23%) than men (19.3%) have been assaulted at least once in their lifetime.
  • Rates of female-perpetrated violence are higher than male-perpetrated (28.3% vs. 21.6%).
  • Male and female IPV are perpetrated from similar motives.
  • Studies comparing men and women in the power/control motive have mixed results overall.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticviolenceagainstmen#:~:text=The%20theory%20that%20women%20perpetrate,Straus%20and%20Richard%20J.

Edited

I’m trying really hard to understand your point of view, but a study including the US and Canada from 12 years ago and using Wikipedia as a source isn’t convincing me.

Did you read the statistics on the Woman’s Aid page I posted earlier?

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:18

Bodeganights · 22/08/2024 08:17

Men, men are murdering, not humans, just men. Hth

Show quote history

Is lucy letby a man then?

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:19

Veebee89 · 22/08/2024 08:18

It achieves more than spreading myths that blame the women who are killed for getting involved with “the wrong type of man”, perpetuating stereotypes about “the type of man” we are at risk from and othering victims of domestic abuse by saying that no men that you know would do that. To address the problem we need to be honest about what it is.

Show quote history

What would actually address the problem would be if women got together in a united force and protest and demonstrate and try to bring about change

cupcaske123 · 22/08/2024 08:23

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:18

Is lucy letby a man then?

Show quote history

90% of homicides are committed by men.

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:23

The whole world is a bit of a shithole.

Both men and women are cruel.

The most physically cruel people I've met have been men.

The most psychologically cruel people I've met, by far, have been women.

Women can be extremely cruel, cold and heartless.

We live in a world where we are taught to be selfish and abusive. No one sees the benefit of being kind

Hateam · 22/08/2024 08:24

Bodeganights · 22/08/2024 08:17

Men, men are murdering, not humans, just men. Hth

Show quote history

But that's just a stupid comment to make. It clearly isn't true. The hth on the end just makes it worse.

95% of all murders are committed by men.

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:24

cupcaske123 · 22/08/2024 08:23

90% of homicides are committed by men.

Show quote history

She said "men are murderers, not humans. Just men".

I was pointing out that there have been female murderers.

I understand that more murderers are men

SeaStory · 22/08/2024 08:26

But I do feel that some women become so focused on it that they lose perspective. I don't know anyone that's been murdered and it's quite rare that I read about it because I don't go out my way looking for it.

I don’t personally know any woman murdered by a man.
I do know many who live/have lived in abusive relationships, whether they can acknowledge it or not.
Pretty much every woman I know (and this is backed up by research) has been assaulted or harassed in some way by a man. Many of these women live in denial and continue to defend man.
I know many who see abusive men as the norm and thus defend it, because that’s all they’ve known.
Murder itself is thankfully rare, but abuse and women putting up with it are frighteningly common.

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2024 08:26

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:15

But how is it helpful or getting us anywhere to say that.

It doesn't achieve anything

Show quote history

Helpful? It's the truth. If we're going to try to address a problem we need to see it clearly. Using evidence and asking questions even if we don't like the answers.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2024 08:27

What would actually address the problem would be if women got together in a united force and protest and demonstrate and try to bring about change

But what specific change(s) do you think could be wrought by protests and demonstrations?

Human nature isn't changed by a protest. So, what achievable societal and legal changes might actually help?

More government support for Women's Aid, perhaps, more help for women to recognise warning signs and then be able to get practical help?

noworklifebalance · 22/08/2024 08:27

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:11

Women abuse a lot of children

And a lot of women HAVE killed children .

Lucy letby - serial killer of children
The woman who killed baby Star.
Thw woman who killed Arthur Labinjo.

There are loads of cases

Show quote history

Women like Lucy Letby are exceedingly exceedingly rate so not comparable at all. I doubt anyone, male or female, for a nanosecond that other women maybe like that. Possibly other nurses, healthcare professional (because patients/babies are very vulnerable in this situation) but other women? No.

In cases like baby Star, there is often (not always) a step-parent/partner on the scene, although this doesn’t absolve the mother of her prime responsibility to their child.

Hateam · 22/08/2024 08:28

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:19

What would actually address the problem would be if women got together in a united force and protest and demonstrate and try to bring about change

Show quote history

Sadly, that wouldn't achieve anything.

Lulu1919 · 22/08/2024 08:28

Heartbreaking

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:29

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2024 08:26

Helpful? It's the truth. If we're going to try to address a problem we need to see it clearly. Using evidence and asking questions even if we don't like the answers.

Show quote history

What I'm pointing out is that there have been threads on here for years saying the same stuff:

Men are abusers. Men are the majority of killers.

But no one ever does anything to try to bring change.

Ie women could start organising groups to get together to campaign for change

Hateam · 22/08/2024 08:30

noworklifebalance · 22/08/2024 08:27

Women like Lucy Letby are exceedingly exceedingly rate so not comparable at all. I doubt anyone, male or female, for a nanosecond that other women maybe like that. Possibly other nurses, healthcare professional (because patients/babies are very vulnerable in this situation) but other women? No.

In cases like baby Star, there is often (not always) a step-parent/partner on the scene, although this doesn’t absolve the mother of her prime responsibility to their child.

Show quote history

Lucy Letby was brought up.in response to post that claimed all murders are committed by men.

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:30

Hateam · 22/08/2024 08:28

Sadly, that wouldn't achieve anything.

Show quote history

Of course it would.

How has anything been changed in history?

Things are only ever changed when the oppressed start to stand up against their oppressors and insist on change.

Women never seem to bloody do anything! They just sit and let it happen

ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2024 08:33

Things are only ever changed when the oppressed start to stand up against their oppressors and insist on change.

Ok, so what changes should we insist on? Im not being sarky, a protest or campaign should have some clear, achievable objectives if it's to be useful.

noworklifebalance · 22/08/2024 08:33

Hateam · 22/08/2024 08:30

Lucy Letby was brought up.in response to post that claimed all murders are committed by men.

Show quote history

No it wasn’t- the poster prior said that women manage not to kill children at the same rate as men kill women and children. They didn’t say women never kill.

Hateam · 22/08/2024 08:33

Could you give a precise example.

CharlotteRumpling · 22/08/2024 08:35

MN bingo:
Women are psychologically cruel and bitchy
I don't know any abusive men because I am clever and pick the right kind of men
Actually women are abusive back. Lesbians are the worst.
Casts around desperately: what about Lucy Letby!
My son's great. I won't have you say a word against him
Meanwhile this week another 4 women will be killed by men.
It beggars belief. You would think this was a men's site the way posters minimise male violence.

Katypp · 22/08/2024 08:35

user30 · 21/08/2024 17:02

The rules of misogyny explain it all quite well, I feel:

  1. Women are responsible for what men do.
  1. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
  1. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
  1. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
  1. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
  1. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.
  1. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
  1. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
  1. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.

  1. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

  2. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.

  3. Women’s ability to recognise male behaviour patterns is misandry.

  4. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.

  5. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

  6. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.

  7. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

I don't come on this board very often because I find it extreme and unwelcoming.
Am echo chamber where dissenters-no matter how mild and/or reasonable - are aggressively shouted down.
But can I ask - who came up with this list? Or us it just made up to fit your agenda?