Labour Corruption?

[Zebedee999]

Labour took donations from the unions pre-election and are now giving pay rises to those same union's members with limited or no negotiations. Is this corruption?

YABU = Not corruption
YANBU = Corruption of sorts

For the 500th time: Labour have been in power for about 6 weeks. Nobody has managed to demonstrate any evidence of corruption in the current government (yet) because it's only been just over 6 weeks. Settling pay disputes that have cost the economy hundreds of millions isn't corruption. Employing people who are entirely qualified for their ministerial post who have donated to the party isn't corruption - or are you saying that Stephen Timpson isn't qualified for his brief?

There are plenty of Labour supporters on here (just as there are plenty of Tories who STILL haven't got over it). Most of us will be completely ready to call out any actual corruption on the part of Labour politicians when it has been clearly shown to happen. We're just prepared to give them a bit more than 6 weeks.

Even now SKS and his two tier justice that is applied particularly harshly to working class people.

Excelt they’ve just given pay rises to the NHS, teachers and civil servants. Plenty of working class people there.

Well said.

It’s clearly not corruption, but it was naive to acquiesce to pay demands so quickly. Because as could easily have been predicted and indeed has now happened, the unions will be back for more. And they didn’t even get anything in return. Committing £10 billion a year for ever, as pay rises won’t, rightly, be taken away, to save a few hundred million, or even a few billion, now is ill thought through lunacy. Indeed, of the £20 billion alleged ‘black hole’ half was caused by the incoming governments pay decisions, and that’s just gone up another £1 billion or so, along with a surprise increase in borrowing.

Then, despite inheriting falling inflation as well the highest growth and lowest unemployment in Europe, and citing growth as the great panacea, they’ve announced a series of things that will reduce or stifle growth. We are half way through their first 100 days, in which they promised so much…and we haven’t even had the autumn statement which is already being briefed by the chancellor as having tax rises that will further inhibit growth and reduce mobility. Such a wasted opportunity. Not corruption, but It’d easily be called sleaze, if it was another party…

It’s clearly not corruption, but it was naive to acquiesce to pay demands so quickly.
What would you suggest? Because the Tories refused to negotiate on pay and so the strikes continued.

Because as could easily have been predicted and indeed has now happened, the unions will be back for more
That's not true though, is it?

It is indeed not true. People don't seem able to understand that due to the previous government's intractable behaviour, there were multiple rail disputes going on. And the remaining one isn't even about money.

As for 'inheriting falling inflation ', if the previous wish to claim credit for the fall, they must also accept responsibility for the original rise. Sauce, goose.

pointythings, do you mean James Timpson rather than Stephen?

Why don’t you address the specific and valid points seahorses raised to you rather than avoiding responding with sneering?

I probably do.

Because @Alltheprettyseahorses has already had responses explaining why what she raised is not corruption. There's nothing left to add, especially when one is saying things people don't want to hear.

No @pointythings - none of the points made above have been responded to meaningfully. Just sneering and condescension. Please address the points raised.

That’s the ex First Minister right? He resigned. Tory ministers usually have to be dragged kicking and screaming out of office if they are caught doing something wrong.

What do you mean by meaningfully?

Paying public sector workers - whether they belong to a union or not - is literally the job of governments. Improving pay was in the Labour Party’s manifesto - the one they were democratically elected on. People don’t need to ‘give something back’ for getting a fair pay rise after five years of stagnant wages during a period of high inflation. It’s completely absurd to call any of this ‘sleaze’.

That is a matter of opinion. Nothing more.

I suspect 'meaningfully ' means 'agree with me and nothing else will do '.

What? these pay rises were from independent pay review bodies.

The Junior Docs strike has been going on for over a year, its been settled and we can now work on reducing waiting lists.

The train strikes have had a huge impact on UK growth.

The additional £1billion borrowing is nothing to do with Labour policies, they didn't even get into power until early July.

Growth figures are relative to very slow growth coming out of Covid and then Ukraine, most Europe, Germany aside, recovered much quicker.

Uk inflation pretty much in line with Germany and France but our core inflation is higher.

The "corruption" is that Hunt/Sunak, having set up the parameters for the Pay Review bodies, never set aside a single penny for their recommendations.

Why didn't they?

This is astonishing. Even when directly challenged posters still obfuscate, misdirect and avoid the question. See the classic examples above. Absolutely no point engaging with these posters although fair play for trying @Alltheprettyseahorses - no answers just avoidance and condescension. It’s very obvious throughout this thread.

Apt description of your own posts

Seriously, @BionicBadger , did you not see what I posted yesterday? Why is that not enough? The politicians mentioned by @Alltheprettyseahorses were either cleared or paid for their sins. Except for the ones that seahorses didn't bother to clarify, i.e. which Alexander.

So unless you believe that rehabilitation doesn't exist and that politicians must all be saints, I don't see the issue. Also I did not sneer. I made points in perfectly civil terms. Unless, again, to sneer means 'to disagree'.

You seem determined to refuse to give a brand new government a chance. I wonder why?

I suggest you read the responses again. The points have been fully addressed.

Agree.

It shows a sad state of affairs when paying public sector workers a fair pay and backdating it over the period they've had below inflation pay rises - is corruption.

People start to really show their true colours when they begrudge people - most commonly called keyworker keeping the country up and running 4 years ago - a fair wage and standard of living.

So many people already have. There's no point repeating when the responses are already there.

This is just crazy. People have specifically and directly refuted the claims. And there you go saying you can't see it. This is back to my previous comment that the Tory way under Johnson was reduced to repeating falsehoods even when they are disproved. It's a rotten culture.

Their line was improving it for everyone though, ie all feel better off not just that sector.

Increasing taxes and making non public sector feel worse off isn't going with what was sold in