Labour Corruption?

[Zebedee999]

Labour took donations from the unions pre-election and are now giving pay rises to those same union's members with limited or no negotiations. Is this corruption?

YABU = Not corruption
YANBU = Corruption of sorts

I don’t remember any such promise. It’s impossible to improve everyone’s financial situation in the short term, the only way that can be achieved is through growth and that doesn’t happen overnight.

This is bonkers.
unions and working people are one and the same. What do you think a union is? They are comprised of their members, you know, workers.
Union reps are elected by workers - and what difference does their weight make to anything? Most reps are unpaid, incidentally. Union leadership and head office staff are paid - usually a salary agreed by the members - and many of them are also elected.

The unions represent the workers ie the working people.

And I challenge anyone to point me to a union rep that isn't an overweight person with their nose well and truly deep in the trough.

Sharon Graham

I was looking at Starmer's speech pre GE which was fascinating in how marked the tone is to the reality of tax rises etc

And found this too as a prediction in FT in April 2024

You may be joined if it pans out that way

Actually I can't copy it due without copyright warning so I'll say their prediction is higher taxes will make Labour unpopular, borrowing will go up by much more and a schism between public sector and private sector will increase

Increasing taxes and making non public sector feel worse off isn't going with what was sold in

What taxes have been raised for public sector workers and solely for them?

I had a tax rise along with everyone else last year. (Public sector).

I didn't know they'd raised a certain sectors taxes since the election?

Do you have a link to this?

The idea was everyone feels better off, only public sector doing so whilst everyone pays higher taxes and feels worse off isn't going with that pledge

It's not about dividing up taxes. But about pay rises and how they are paid for.

The government can’t control private sector pay, but (as is usual when the Tories have been in for a bit) public sector pay needs to be raised to achieve parity with private sector currently

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/recent-trends-public-sector-pay#:~:text=These%20recent%20trends%20come%20on,4%25%20from%202007%20to%202023.
This report makes it clear that between 2007 and 2023, the public sector has done worse in terms of pay growth than the private sector. Of course the picture is more complex than that, but you really can't say that the private sector workers have valid reasons to feel resentful now that the public sector are getting some pay restoration.

They can control taxes. Which is what they'll need to increase to pay for public sector pay increases

Not necessarily. Other economic models are available. And taxes don’t necessarily mean income taxes for the middle classes.

Who do you want to tax more?

Well, there’s a fair amount of tax fraud, for example (dwarfs benefit fraud) maybe we could get some of that?
Tax is a way that the better off can help the less well off and help pay for things which are a general good and which they benefit from regardless of whether they use them - eg the NHS creating a healthy population, state education ensuring an educated population, etc - plus for roads and police and fire services and armed forces etc etc. So really, people who can afford it. There are plenty that applies to.
Plus there are savings to be made elsewhere - for eg the money paying for asylum seekers not to be processed can be reduced by starting to process them. That’s an expense deliberately created by the last government for their own political ends.

Increase

Inheritance tax (affects about 5% of tax payers)
Capital Gains tax (affects about 1% of tax payers)

for eg the money paying for asylum seekers not to be processed can be reduced by starting to process them

I'm not sure why Labour's approach to trafficking is seen as less costly. There's an increased 'elite border force', people to process arrivals, detention centres, trying to 'smash the gangs' o/s, oh and any increased payment o/s, flights to remove people and if numbers keep going up all that costs more

I’ve looked through what I could find of your old posts, @Zebedee999

Already on 20 June, before the election, you were very critical of Keir Starmer and the Labour Party. In contrast I have not found any posts by you criticising the manifest corruption by the Conservatives even though you have been on MN for some time. Most of us are probably against corruption in general as you claim to be but your timing is ……. interesting

Well, that's quite easy to address. Firstly, I'd suggest actually negotiating. There is a middle ground between not negotiating and giving the other side everything that they wanted. I didn't realise I needed to explain what negotiation meant...

Secondly, it clearly is true as the doctors have said they will be on strike again in 12 months, and the tran drivers have also said that they are going to continue indsutrial action. A competent negotiation and good outcome for the public would have been a negotiation that adressed their pay, safety and working hours issues.

I have no skin in the game - I didn't vote for either party. But, I do know what competent negotiation is, and we haven't seen that from either governement.

Eastern I think you've highlighted the issue very well. We've had years of public sector stagnancy with regards to wages. The private sector sets their own and generally they increase yearly but employees can negotiate. But of course when public sector unions ballot for strikes due to low pay many don't support it.

But now when public sector pay is increased and strikes stop that's also a bad thing. But it's not that public sector pay is being risen. It's being raised over the years to MATCH inflation and so generally will match private sector.

No one has said you will be paying more taxes.

But did no one question last year when the taxes were raised why they didn't raise public sector pay with inflation alongside this?

The one thing I would love to see is and end to this competition between private and public sector and blame game.

Everyone should have a fair wage.

Public sector pay does not need to be at parity with the private sector. Public sector employment comes with better job security (on the whole) and a far better pension. If those things aren't valued, and all that matters is salary parity, then taht's a reasonable position for a satte employer to take of course

flights to remove people and if numbers keep going up all that costs more

Well it was going to cost to send them to Rwanda.
That involved flights.

But I'm actually quite surprised that people are now finding a reason to complain that people who aren't entitled to asylum will be removed at cost - yet complain when they are in hotels waiting for processing at a cost.

What do you want?

No solution is going to be cost free.

I'm not sure why Labour's approach to trafficking is seen as less costly. There's an increased 'elite border force', people to process arrivals, detention centres, trying to 'smash the gangs' o/s, oh and any increased payment o/s, flights to remove people and if numbers keep going up all that costs more

Employing staff to process arrivals and cases efficiently is absolutely going to be cheaper than keeping asylum seekers in hotels or barges - it just won't make profits for certain people. And the previous government were also going to have removal flights, so you can't really complain about those happening - even if they aren't to Rwanda. British people want asylum seekers removed - they have to accept that it's going to cost money. Of course endless posturing and doing nothing about Rwanda is cheap...

International collaboration to tackle people smuggling may well bring some savings, but more importantly it is morally and ethically the right thing to do.

I’m not talking about the approach to trafficking. I. Talking about the number of people in hotels unassessed because the Tories deliberately slowed assessment almost to a stop. Not paying for their keep will save money, then they start earning, paying taxes and contributing to the economy, so more cash again.

Not agreeing with you is not the same as not understanding. I am not sure why you think I am crediting the previous government with the fall in inflation. I merely made a statement, supported by international commentators and economists, that the financial circumstances that the government has inherited are actually quite favourable relative to most G7 economies. That's worthy of debate in teh context of what teh government plans to do, surely?

Why people have to take an entrenched party political stance on everything rather than have an open debate on the issues is beyond me. This government held itself as being different, of governing for all and of being a government of public service. To date, and they are only half way through their first 100 days, there is precious little progess to see on those aims. But, we should wait for the autumn statement to see if anything improves.

I’m flattered! Gave up with the tories long ago. Was strangely hopeful when labour won but same old same old. Politicians are there to serve us, but so many here defend “their team” despite everything. So many tribal types here; I don’t get it, all parties should be open to comment/criticism.
Some of the imbeciles here reckon I’m “Tory hq” or endless childish insults simply for expressing an opinion that others are welcome to disagree with. But some take it personally and will defend their team regardless of what it does.
Over the years I’ve voted for nearly all the parties depending on how my circumstances, or the parties, have changed. But others cannot and will not change. As for checking peoples posting history… bizarre.

I agree with you. Why do people get so irate over criticism of “their team”? No one can agree with 100% of what their favoured party does… yet woe betide if you make a comment about their party!
personally I’ve chopped and changed over the years, and regretted some votes (Labour parties illegal war is one such regret).