Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

JKR being uncharacteristically quiet

1000 replies

Jdugsgsgwyd · 17/08/2024 14:42

Anyone else noticed since the news that JKR is being sued by Imane Khelif she's been very quiet, unless I'm mistaken she's hasn't tweeted at all in about a week.

and hasn't responded at all to the legal action being taken against her. This is very unlike her, I'm thinking she's been advised by her lawyers to keep quiet. Anyone else think she might have put her foot in it this time?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
BeyondOlympicLevelProcrastinator · 17/08/2024 16:03

Michael phelps isn't allowed to compete with the female swimmers, so... 🙂

heathspeedwell · 17/08/2024 16:04

"The fact is if Khelif does have a DSD, that means her and individuals like her disprove the foundation of your argument that sex is simple and binary, and you can't have that so you have to attack her."

This is utter nonsense. The vast majority of people born with DSDs are very much either male or female. No one has ever been born with a functioning set of both genitals.

Khelif has a DSD that only men can have, and he went through male puberty. It's highly unlikely that he didn't notice the fact that he was male when he never started menstruating, and his voice broke and he grew an Adam's apple.

DefyingGravitas · 17/08/2024 16:04

W1nnweD1nner · 17/08/2024 16:02

I think you’re on very dangerous ground when you start persecuting people for how they look.

How is cheek swab for all athletes wishing to compete in women’s Olympics, persecuting people for how they look? Unless we don’t want to exclude men from women’s sports?

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 17/08/2024 16:05

It's not 'persecution' if every competitor has to do a cheek swab. It's completely fair.

What it will exclude is risks to women and cheats. Funny how everyone's tying themselves in pretzels to avoid such a simple, fair solution. Almost like they get some weird thrill from women being abused.

heathspeedwell · 17/08/2024 16:05

A reminder that the IOC decided to do away with sex testing - which is just a simple cheek swab.

The vast majority of women did NOT want to stop sex testing because women knew that it kept out male cheats.

DefyingGravitas · 17/08/2024 16:06

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 17/08/2024 16:05

It's not 'persecution' if every competitor has to do a cheek swab. It's completely fair.

What it will exclude is risks to women and cheats. Funny how everyone's tying themselves in pretzels to avoid such a simple, fair solution. Almost like they get some weird thrill from women being abused.

It’s the Be Kind Olympics, the only sport that women are required to take part in.

izimbra · 17/08/2024 16:06

According to her Wikipedia entry she came 17th in the 2018 AIBA Women's World Boxing Championships.

She finished 33rd in the same championships in 2019.

So she's dangerous, but not so dangerous that she's been repeatedly defeated by other women in previous matches. 😳

ChishiyaBat · 17/08/2024 16:07

W1nnweD1nner · 17/08/2024 15:52

So anybody that looks masculine has to show their chromosomes now?

No not everyone, but olympic athletes certainly should, so they are in the correct category dor their sex, that makes it fair for all competitors then. Instead they decided nope, what was written on a passport would do the job.

Ramblomatic · 17/08/2024 16:07

spannasaurus · 17/08/2024 15:49

The IOC said they didn't test for testosterone

The IOC don't test for anything. The ITA do. And it's a T/E test, not a testosterone level test, because it's not unusual for an elite female athlete to have high (male level) T.

Genuine question - Have you ever watched Imane box? Do you think she has a pronounced physical advantage over her opponents in terms of her speed and power?

izimbra · 17/08/2024 16:08

Are the large numbers of women who've defeated Khelif in previous boxing matches categorically a danger to other women then?

heathspeedwell · 17/08/2024 16:08

He has risen to Gold medal standard in a very short space of time - he didn't even start boxing until he was 17. It's not surprising that he lost lots of matches early in his career.

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 16:09

RVEllacott · 17/08/2024 15:59

But sports categories aren't based on "typical bodies" and "atypical bodies" it's based on male and female (and in some sports weight). Therefore we need to know whether someone is male or if they're female so the can compete in the correct category.

But she is female. She is female with some physical differences that may or may not give her a sporting advantage (possibly, because again we don't know, this is all speculation, and once again anyone here stating confidently that they know what her biology is is talking out their arses). So for rational people who aren't mired down in wanting to call someone who was born female and raised female a man because she doesn't fit into their binary boxes, the conversation has moved beyond the question of is she a man or woman (because we know she is a woman), and has become a conversation about the fairness of individuals with natural physical advantage competing in sports. And the fact is, usually if someone has a natural physical advantage that makes them better at a sport, we don't disqualify them, we celebrate them. Especially if they are men. There's a huge amount of misogyny on top of everything else in the way Khelif has been singled out and talked about.

All that said though, while Khelif has obviously done extremely well this year it's interesting that she hasn't actually been particularly outstanding or dominating for her whole career, and actually has been beaten multiple times before by other women, including one of the women she defeated this time around. So perhaps she doesn't even have an outstanding natural advantage either.

DefyingGravitas · 17/08/2024 16:09

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 15:51

She isn't male.

Michael Phelps has atypical anatomy that gives him natural advantages as a swimmer, do you also think he shouldn't have been allowed to compete or is it just successful women you want to undermine?

Really, we’re going down the Michael Phelps route? He’s got a body shape advantageous for his sport, he’s not trying to compete against women after going through male puberty. Are we going to get on to clown fish next?

I base ‘she’ on chromosomes and not going through male puberty.

RVEllacott · 17/08/2024 16:09

W1nnweD1nner · 17/08/2024 16:02

I think you’re on very dangerous ground when you start persecuting people for how they look.

Who's being persecuted for this way they look? The only question of interest here is whether Khelif was eligible to compete. How they or anyone else looks is irrelevant. There are plenty of women athletes breaking down barriers around looks especially those competing in strength based sports like weight lifting.

heathspeedwell · 17/08/2024 16:09

He's not female. He went through male puberty.

Abouttoblow · 17/08/2024 16:10

W1nnweD1nner · 17/08/2024 15:52

So anybody that looks masculine has to show their chromosomes now?

How people look is irrelevant.

ANYONE wishing to compete in female sporting categories should be sex tested.
Like they had to previously.

Tandora · 17/08/2024 16:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DefyingGravitas · 17/08/2024 16:10

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 16:09

But she is female. She is female with some physical differences that may or may not give her a sporting advantage (possibly, because again we don't know, this is all speculation, and once again anyone here stating confidently that they know what her biology is is talking out their arses). So for rational people who aren't mired down in wanting to call someone who was born female and raised female a man because she doesn't fit into their binary boxes, the conversation has moved beyond the question of is she a man or woman (because we know she is a woman), and has become a conversation about the fairness of individuals with natural physical advantage competing in sports. And the fact is, usually if someone has a natural physical advantage that makes them better at a sport, we don't disqualify them, we celebrate them. Especially if they are men. There's a huge amount of misogyny on top of everything else in the way Khelif has been singled out and talked about.

All that said though, while Khelif has obviously done extremely well this year it's interesting that she hasn't actually been particularly outstanding or dominating for her whole career, and actually has been beaten multiple times before by other women, including one of the women she defeated this time around. So perhaps she doesn't even have an outstanding natural advantage either.

We don’t know. The results of a cheek swab would help. It would help all women competing in sex based categories of sport to ensure a fair competition.

Bromptotoo · 17/08/2024 16:11

halava · 17/08/2024 14:54

All Imane has to do is a DNA/swab test and then everyone will know if he is a man or not.

How could a court case succeed unless the plaintiff can prove they are who the defendant says they are not?

But that may not be the entire substance of the suit.

Not sure it's a simple binary thing to know their sex.

TheOriginalEmu · 17/08/2024 16:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Tandora · 17/08/2024 16:12

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 16:09

But she is female. She is female with some physical differences that may or may not give her a sporting advantage (possibly, because again we don't know, this is all speculation, and once again anyone here stating confidently that they know what her biology is is talking out their arses). So for rational people who aren't mired down in wanting to call someone who was born female and raised female a man because she doesn't fit into their binary boxes, the conversation has moved beyond the question of is she a man or woman (because we know she is a woman), and has become a conversation about the fairness of individuals with natural physical advantage competing in sports. And the fact is, usually if someone has a natural physical advantage that makes them better at a sport, we don't disqualify them, we celebrate them. Especially if they are men. There's a huge amount of misogyny on top of everything else in the way Khelif has been singled out and talked about.

All that said though, while Khelif has obviously done extremely well this year it's interesting that she hasn't actually been particularly outstanding or dominating for her whole career, and actually has been beaten multiple times before by other women, including one of the women she defeated this time around. So perhaps she doesn't even have an outstanding natural advantage either.

And the fact is, usually if someone has a natural physical advantage that makes them better at a sport, we don't disqualify them, we celebrate them. Especially if they are men. There's a huge amount of misogyny on top of everything else in the way Khelif has been singled out and talked about.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 17/08/2024 16:12

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 17/08/2024 16:05

It's not 'persecution' if every competitor has to do a cheek swab. It's completely fair.

What it will exclude is risks to women and cheats. Funny how everyone's tying themselves in pretzels to avoid such a simple, fair solution. Almost like they get some weird thrill from women being abused.

It's so depressing that there are posters tying themselves in knots trying to defend two boxers who have been disqualified after two independent tests revealed they were ineligible and that they chose not to appeal (well one did then pulled out), two boxers who could easily put all this to bed with a simple test revealing that they are actually female but are choosing not to.

To these posters - why is this more important than the women facing them in the ring? Why, with all the questions over their sex and fairness to box, are they more important than these women's rights to fairness in sports and not to be punched by potential males? Why are you not questioning why they aren't being transparent about their sex?

Because their passports say they're female so it's ok?

It's a joke.

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 16:12

heathspeedwell · 17/08/2024 16:04

"The fact is if Khelif does have a DSD, that means her and individuals like her disprove the foundation of your argument that sex is simple and binary, and you can't have that so you have to attack her."

This is utter nonsense. The vast majority of people born with DSDs are very much either male or female. No one has ever been born with a functioning set of both genitals.

Khelif has a DSD that only men can have, and he went through male puberty. It's highly unlikely that he didn't notice the fact that he was male when he never started menstruating, and his voice broke and he grew an Adam's apple.

Sorry but you've pulled this right out of your bumhole. You don't even know for sure that Khelif has a DSD, let alone specifically which one she has. You are absolutely making up "facts" about her life and her body and her puberty that you have no idea about.

BeyondOlympicLevelProcrastinator · 17/08/2024 16:12

If we stuck my DP in a boxing ring against elite fighters he'd probably lose every time. Doesn't prove he's a woman, just proves he's a shit boxer. 🤷🏼‍♀️

StealthSpinach · 17/08/2024 16:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This is one of the most vile posts I’ve read on here. Disgusting.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.