JKR being uncharacteristically quiet

[Jdugsgsgwyd]

Anyone else noticed since the news that JKR is being sued by Imane Khelif she's been very quiet, unless I'm mistaken she's hasn't tweeted at all in about a week.

and hasn't responded at all to the legal action being taken against her. This is very unlike her, I'm thinking she's been advised by her lawyers to keep quiet. Anyone else think she might have put her foot in it this time?

Because the 'binary' genders are the universally accepted genders that exist. Man and woman.

The idea that there are 100 genders is just that... an 'idea'. And it's an ideology that the vast majority of people don't subscribe to.

That's the truth. The fact some people don't like the truth is neither here nor there.

You know we are getting somewhere as I agree with a lot of points you make here. Although perhaps not all the conclusions that you draw. This is particularly interesting and thought provoking for me:

Trans women know they have male bodies. They also feel they are women in their minds. These facts are both true. If you label the trans woman a woman because of her mind you erase the fact of her body. If you call her a man because of her body you erase her experience of her mind.

my initial reply is why do we have to erase either?
why can’t we respect her mind and also acknowledge her body?

We can acknowledge our bodies our different and diverse and still respect someone else’s gender.

No male can ever experience life as a woman. They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, they are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Which is fucking misogynistic!

Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way.

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is. They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life).

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

It’s not an ambiguous feeling.

@FrippEnos I'm not suggesting everyone else has to agree.

Even if I was on the other side though I'd give Janet the courtesy of using their preferred pronouns.

"my initial reply is why do we have to erase either?"

Because, there are situations where sex should be prioritised over 'gender'. And so, there are situations in life where someone's feelings about their identity is irrelevant to ensure that a different group of people, who can be clearly defined, have their own rights respected and fully considered.

Sport is one of these. Another is single sex spaces which also include opportunities that have been set up to progress the needs of those of the female sex where they have been oppressed.

This has been explained specifically to you now for numerous threads. It is why your adherence to your personal philosophical belief is one that the majority of the UK reject when you consider the polling information on this topic.

I have said before that I know I am a woman because of my physical body - that is an objective fact.
I have no idea if I feel like a woman because I have no idea what it means to feel like or think like a woman. I cannot know this as it is impossible for anyone to know how another person feels in their head or how their internal thought processes work. I only know what it feels like to be me.
Does my brain work in the same way as other women? Do I experience feelings and thoughts in the same way as other women? I don't know and I have no way of knowing.

Again, as is your personal choice.

No other person should be coerced or forced in anyway to comply with a person's preferred pronoun choice which is based on philosophical belief and not the premise of established language that is based on material reality.

Right!? Yet you don't give a shit when these conversations 'erase the experiences of 100% biological women'?

This conversation is WILD!

The part of my brain that is conscious I am a woman knows this because I have learned that is the name for my body type.

It's not an innate thing I was born knowing. It's just language. It's a label for a fact.

Trans people want to change the word to label something else. They may well feel this thing. Perhaps it is even innate to them. But I do not. So if it is decided that the fact of feeling this "thing" is womanhood rather than the fact of having a female body then I will no longer have a "part of my brain that is conscious I am a woman" because I won't be one any more. Not because of any change on my part but because the label for what I am has been taken away.

And everything I experienced because of the fact of my body still happened. It is still true even if the language no longer exists to describe it.

If it can't be defined then its ambiguous.

As for
"why can’t we respect her mind and also acknowledge her body?"

I would and am happy to do so as long as there are clear areas where it is accepted that biological sex trumps feelings.
Single sex spaces, sports etc. and the rewriting of the definition of language.

But you are trying to get everyone to use their preferred pronouns.

That's no problem. Your silence on the topic is more than enough of a response. Thanks.

It really is, but it’s welcomed, if not slightly worrying that there are fully formed adults walking about thinking this shit. Shows the absurdity of these nonsensical ‘arguments’.

You CAN! That is my point!

But not if you insist on using the same name for both things.

The thing trans women are experiencing is not the same thing as, nor interchangeable with, the thing female people are experiencing. It should be called something else.

Then we get two great benefits. We can acknowledge it as an entirely valid experience of both women and man, AND we can acknowledge that it's entirely valid that plenty of women (and indeed men) don't experience it.

In other words, it's nothing to do with sex and never was, and should never have been mislabelled as womanhood.

How I navigate the world with the body fitting one or the other sex categories will not change if the language changes around it. It is still unique to the collective of female people and does not include any male people.

It is not controversial to say this.

People simply do not have to comply with someone's philosophical belief when material reality is well established and abiding even if someone tries to change the language.

Oh. cross posted with Flirts

Would you still give Janet that courtesy if she were your rapist?
Until recently when the guidance was changed, rape victims were told to use their rapists preferred pronouns during their trial.

What a pity that the OP didn't get to answer this:

So, you are supporting a male person who has been JK Rowling's abuser and you are telling us that she should show respect to her abuser? You are saying that she has shown 'needless cruelty' against a male person who had a history of abusing her.

And that her needless cruelty, was denying that male person's philosophical belief that they were a 'woman'.

By saying:

"When I was young all the football managers were straight, white, middle-
aged blokes, so it's fantastic to see how much things have changed."

https://archive.is/zRJ6m

Do you really have the depth of knowledge about what JK Rowling has said and done to be making judgements against her?

Do you understand the point that she was even making? That this male person had all the experience gained by opportunities open to them as a 'male person', and is now using that experience to claim renown as a male person who is now managing a female team.

Why is this something female people should celebrate? And why should any person support an abusive male person who is now managing a female team?

Can you explain why you support an abusive male person in this way, ** ?

I noticed that no one else attempted to either. Yet many posters were keen to demonise JK Rowling for pointing out where female people have been harmed by ideological philosophical belief.

🙅

https://x.com/JenniferSey/status/1822795766445887969

🙅

absolutely all of this is your experience.

let’s consider the experience of a person with a DSD. She has what looks to be typical female genitalia at birth. As far as anyone can recognise and see she is a girl. She is raised a girl. She learns she is a girl, that boys and girls have different bodies. All the typical things.

What gender identity do you think she has?

She grows up and at a certain point realises she hasn’t started her period. Eventually she approaches her GP and investigations are triggered. She learns that her chromosomes are XY and she has no uterus. She has internal gonadal tissue.

Do you think this experience is significant for her (beyond the basic fertility implications)? Why?

Theres no such thing as gender right? Or identity? So simple- she’s just a man now..

People compete in the female sports categories with bodies, not with identities. Their sports are protected as a human right to enable female athletes to compete with safety and fairness.

The IOC has failed female athletes.

Gender identities are completely irrelevant to female sports.

*The part of my brain that is conscious I am a woman knows this because I have learned that is the name for my body type.

It's not an innate thing I was born knowing. It's just language. It's a label for a fact.*

See my post above @FlirtsWithRhinos . What happens when the “facts” change?

"What happens when the “facts” change?"

The exact same thing that happens when someone finds out that they can no longer compete in the sports that they love due to any other medical condition or situation. Not one person has been able to explain just why these particular male people are given these additional rights over any one else who discovers that they are now excluded from competing.

While it is a situation that is well worthy of empathy that finding out is so life changing, it is not ever a reason to include anyone who has gone through any degree of male puberty in the female sports category.

The protected category of sports is not a consolation for any male person regardless of their personal history. Whether it is a personal history of having been incorrectly registered at birth as one sex and discovering that they are not that sex, or a history of a male who has a gender identity where they believe they are a 'female'.

Bodies compete in sports. Not identities.

Facts can change and keep on changing....

Female athletes say "No thank you!"