JKR being uncharacteristically quiet

[Jdugsgsgwyd]

Anyone else noticed since the news that JKR is being sued by Imane Khelif she's been very quiet, unless I'm mistaken she's hasn't tweeted at all in about a week.

and hasn't responded at all to the legal action being taken against her. This is very unlike her, I'm thinking she's been advised by her lawyers to keep quiet. Anyone else think she might have put her foot in it this time?

I generally align with JK on many things feminism, but feel strongly that she has been wrong to make an example out of Khelif.

Those of you who say “Khelif isn’t a woman”, well fine, but she isn’t a man either. That is the bitter truth about DSD, people don’t fit neatly into either box.

Consider for a moment how you would feel if you went to the doctor tomorrow and they told you that you were a man, due to something about your chromosomes. Even though you have always been female, as of today, you have to be a man. It would be totally traumatic. Now imagine experiencing this at the tender age of 12 or 13. Would you shout at that child “you are a boy, get over it, oh and by the way, that sport that you are talented at, your greatest strength and other core facet to your self-esteem and identity - yeah you’re not that great, it’s your dodgy hormones and your basically cheating by taking part.”

I mean, have some fucking compassion. This is a reality for youngsters with DSD, and I know because I know one personally.

Sure there are some really difficult questions about how to make sport equitable and inclusive for all, but JK really should have kept her gob shut, this is entirely different to the Trans debate and I feel she let herself down badly here.

Why are you so stridently tubthumping the opposite?

I’m not.

If it turns out IK is a female with no advantage with regard to chromosomal, hormonal or pubertal function and development, then fine, all good and good luck to IK. But none of us - including you - know that. There’s no reason to believe, based on feelings or ‘be kind’. If there is any question - and there is because IK and Lin failed testing from their own sporting governing body, the. Those questions HAVE to be answered. It’s that simple. And it protects the likes of IK and Lin in future, from random males entering female sports to win with their advantage, knowing they won’t, and can’t, be questioned.

Those of you who say “Khelif isn’t a woman”, well fine, but she isn’t a man either. That is the bitter truth about DSD, people don’t fit neatly into either box.

This is incorrect. All DSDs are specific to one sex or the other.

And I cannot understand why people have so much compassion for Khelif, yet clearly zero compassion for the women's who's safety, dignity and opportunities he is compromising.

Kehif is not trans. Your post is unrelated to her case, please educate yourself.

Caster said during a televised interview that having testes doesn't make her any less of a woman.

Now personally I couldn't care less whether Caster Semenya wants to "live as a woman", and if it is actually true that she was raised as a girl and believed herself to be a girl for a long time then I would say she has a far greater claim to "live as a woman" than someone who is male but has a transgender identity.

But if you have testes you will go through male puberty and this will give you a huge physical advantage over female competitors in sports. And that's why you shouldn't be allowed to compete in women's categories, however sad that might make you. Because the women you displace will also feel very sad, and they matter just as much as you do.

There’s no reason to believe, based on feelings or ‘be kind’. If there is any question - and there is because IK and Lin failed testing from their own sporting governing body, the. Those questions HAVE to be answered. It’s that simple. And it protects the likes of IK and Lin in future, from random males entering female sports to win with their advantage, knowing they won’t, and can’t, be questioned.

Exactly

If there is even the slightest hint that we are giving the green light to men beating up women in the name of sport, then that needs to be investigated. I am gobsmacked that this is even up for debate.

It doesn't matter whether someone is trans or has a DSD. What matters is whether they have a competitive advantage over female athletes.

Exactly

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

The PP I posted didn’t write anything about sporting advantage though. Her post was about whether people can change their sex / gender, which is not the issue under discussion here.

Agreed.
Testosterone gives massive strength advantages
There could well be internal testes producing testosterone.

Oh come on now, it’s quite simple. Don’t be disingenuous. I thought we were getting somewhere there. I’m quite happy to try to understand your position but if you’re just going to be silly there’s not much point trying to engage.

You're a bit late to this thread, which is now many hundreds of posts in length. It's mostly about differences of sexual development, but has strayed onto other topics as well. I was answering a specific post immediately above mine about whether it was possible to change sex. Tandora (21.34) appeared not to understand the question so I was explaining what I thought it meant.

I don't think anybody here is downplaying how devastating it must be to learn that you have a DSD.

However, unfortunately I think we need to include competitive sport in the list of things that having a DSD might rob you of, which also potentially includes being able to have your own biological children. It's a shitty hand to be dealt. But people with sporting dreams are dealt these blows every day. Talented little girls who dream of becoming ballet dancers sometimes grow too tall and their hard work has all been for nothing. Competitive skiers break their backs and never ski again. At least a boxer who discovers at the age of 25 that they are in fact male with a DSD can still enjoy amateur boxing against male boxers, even if they aren't good enough to go to the Olympics when competing in the correct sex category.

Life isn't fair.

But we should try to make the Olympics as fair as possible.

And it isn't fair to let biologically male people compete in women's categories, regardless of the circumstances.

The real culprits here are the IOC who allowed this to go ahead and the global spotlight to be shone on these two boxers. They should have established sensible eligibility criteria in the first place and enforced them across all sports without fanfare. Relying on passports, or even requiring male athletes to suppress their testosterone to a level which is still ten times higher than the top of the female range, are not sensible eligibility criteria.

FFS. Wading and Treacle spring to mind don’t they Gasp? 😂

Yes indeed. Ah well. I am off to bed now. Who knows what turn this thread may have taken by the morning!

It’s August. Perhaps she’s on holiday.

okay sorry about that I hadn’t read every post.

Look obviously I am speaking only for myself, but I watched him box, it was obvious to me he was male, his gait, his reach, the way he carried himself all screamed male to me. He should never have been allowed in that ring! Many women were failed in the decision to let him fight! That is what I mean!

The person I was replying to literally asked me a question about trans people, hence my comment about dragging them in. I'm inclined to agree with you it's not important.

And once again you're showing remarkable insight into Khelif's biology for someone who knows - along with the rest of us - fuck all about it.

I'm honestly gobsmacked at the number of people on this thread incapable of distinguishing between what is a fact, established by evidence, and what is stuff they just reckon.

This is all fair enough, but I still think JK misjudged it, there was just no need for her to wade in, many people have taken it as a dog whistle to bully Khelif when, as you say, the whole situation is painful and unfair to everyone really.

Essentially - yes it needs sorting out, but no it doesn’t need JK’s help (hinderence) in muddying the waters and making an athlete’s life a misery.

Two gender tests revealed XY. Those results have not been officially questioned by anyone. Nor were they appealed. Nor had anyone produced any evidence to the contrary to suggest that they are not correct.

Once again, this is men beating up women that's being sanctioned here. It is absolutely shocking that these test results have been overruled without any attempt to contradict them or clarify the situation.

It's black. And it's white. Imane Khelif is male. Happy to be added to his lawsuit 😍

What about the women having to forgo their own safety and opportunities because a man wants to beat them up? Why don't you care that their lives have been made a misery? Thankfully JKR cares enough about them to stick her head above the parapet.

Who needs chromosome tests when you can just ask ChishiyaBat to look at the way someone carries themselves and tell you if it "screams male". Can the rest of us hear this screaming, or is it just in your head?

Genuinely this is bollocks though, and it's straight back into misogynistic views about what women "should" look like and behave like, something female athletes have been scrutinised over since time immemorial, because people don't expect women to look physically powerful or to walk confidently or to dare take up space in the world.