JKR being uncharacteristically quiet

[Jdugsgsgwyd]

Anyone else noticed since the news that JKR is being sued by Imane Khelif she's been very quiet, unless I'm mistaken she's hasn't tweeted at all in about a week.

and hasn't responded at all to the legal action being taken against her. This is very unlike her, I'm thinking she's been advised by her lawyers to keep quiet. Anyone else think she might have put her foot in it this time?

She is a woman because she was born, raised and identifies as a woman.

Language is important, particularly in this kind of debate, it isn’t an aside, it’s fundamental.
In any case, so you are certain that IK is female? So as FD doesn’t want to answer I’ll ask you,

“So, on the evidence of observation of external genitals (and not colloquial vaginas) IK was ‘assigned’ female at birth and that is, as far as you are concerned, irrefutable and conclusive proof of womanhood?
I’m not on MN that often but I’m going to take a punt on assuming you might just be on board with TWAW. If that is a correct assumption (and I apologise if it isn’t), does that mean that, AFAYAC observation of a Transwoman’s external genitalia at birth is irrefutable and conclusive proof that they are male?”

And to ward off FDs deflection of ‘IK isn’t Trans’, I know, I’m asking an additional question that I would like to hear your perspective on…

It’s not a gotcha, or a weird urge (?), as I said, I don’t frequent these boards as much as some, I genuinely want your answer to understand your position.
If you ‘want’ to answer, then answer. I’d like to hear it.

I'm arguing passionately because I think Khelif has been horribly treated and it must be utterly horrendous to have the entire world talking openly about what your genitals might look like (and I recognise I've been involved in that too here, which I'm sorry for, and I will not be talking specifics about her private parts any more), I think she's brave to endure it and brave to stand up to it, I think what JKR said was nasty, tone deaf and uncalled for, and I think all of that remains true regardless of whether Khelif does have a DSD or not.

Why are you so stridently tubthumping the opposite?

Yeah IK can crack on identifying any way they like. Don't care. But has male advantage in sport, which is important

Because the International Boxing Association is not considered an official sporting body and no official sporting body thought it necessary to carry out the relevant tests.

No it doesn’t though does it. He knows he has a DSD, he knows he has male XY chromosomes and he still got in the ring and punched the crap out of a woman. You are talking utter shit if you think he doesn’t know what medical condition he has.

The backlash against him is self imposed as a result. As I said I look forward to the court case where he proves me wrong.

I’ll do my best to make sense of this and answer you in good faith.

i reject the entire business of demanding “conclusive proof” of someone’s sex.
It is not based on any good science and it is indefensible from the standpoint of human rights and justice.

I agree that there is a legitimate debate to be had about the qualifying conditions for participation in women’s sport. But there is no way to have a clear and meaningful debate on this issue without acknowledging the real life complexity of biological sex .

And there is no excuse for going on twitter and calling this poor boxer “a male” and accusing her of cheating and committing VAW. She qualified to participate and had every right to do so. She did nothing wrong, and no one has the right to stand in judgement of her body and identity, especially when they have so few facts.

Look, like it or not, there is now a huge question mark over what sex Khelif is, and if you want to compete in the Olympics you have to accept that what sex you are is everyone's business.

If Khelif is female then she could make all the speculation go away by proving it.

If she isn't, then she shouldn't be competing in women's sport.

Have you looked up DSDs?

I 100% agree with you @FreedomDogs and also feel so horrible and uncomfortable speculating about her body like this . Unfortunately this is what you get dragged into when you try to share the facts on these topics.

Ah ok, then I understand where you’re coming from. To me ‘born and raised’ means nothing in terms of whether someone is a women or not, that could happen to anyone, for multiple reasons (and has). Identifies = Bullshit. My husband, who has fathered five children, could identify as a woman tomorrow. Doesn’t mean he is one, in any way, whatsoever.

Two last questions for you…

1. Do you believe humans can change sex? Not a gotcha, just a yes or no will suffice, you don’t even have to believe sex is binary, do you think sex can be changed in humans from one sex, to another? (Just to preempt, this is not about IK specifically, just trying to get a handle on your general opinion)
2. Do you believe women are entitled to have single sex provision for any circumstance, ever? Again not a gotcha, could be sport, rape services, hospital wards, prison…

Luckily she doesn’t have to answer to you. What mattered was the judgement of the Olympic committee and they ruled that she was
eligible to participate. Congratulations to her and I admire her so much

The IOC didn't do any testing. They don't care. They let Laurel Hubbard deprive a young female athlete from a developing country of the chance to compete at the Tokyo Olympics FFS.

DSDs have been a problem in the Olympics for years now. At Rio in the women's 800m all three medals went to male athletes with DSDs including Caster Semenya who has testes.

They're a completely corrupt and discredited organisation who care more about being seen to be woke than they do about fairness and safety in women's sports.

That's what people are complaining about.

Do you believe humans can change sex?

what does this mean?

I disagree with you entirely. I agree with the rules and believe them to be in the best interests of justice, equality and fairness for women’s sports and female athletes.

It seems a simple question to me. There are two sex categories, female and male.

Female - has a reproductive system organised around the production of large gametes (ova) and the capacity to gestate a baby and then produce milk to feed it

Male - has a reproductive system organised around the production of small gametes (sperm)

Can a human from one class change to the other class?

Answer: no, by the way.

Yes but your views on these issues are well known on this site. You never miss an opportunity to defend male born people when you could defend female born people instead.

I agree with the rules and believe them to be in the best interests of justice, equality and fairness for women’s sports and female athletes

forget IK

you think that allowing males to compete in the female category is in the best interests etc?

And quite frankly I think it’s profoundly sexist and misogynistic that you think that a cisgender woman should have to prove what “sex they are” and that the intimate details of her body are everyone’s business because she’s too good at sport.

Everyone should have to prove what sex they are in order to compete in women's categories at the Olympics. Bring back cheek swabs.

And what pray tell is a “male born” or “female born” person? The person you are currently bullying was identified as female at birth.

And yet, no doubt, you are one of the users who pretends that differences in sex development have no place in discussions about trans people. Yet here you are hating on a cisgender woman just the same as you’d hate on her if she were trans. For the very same reasons. Because her body doesn’t conform to your fundamentalist beliefs about gender and sex.

Perhaps incorrectly, as has been pointed out multiple times.

If you were identified as female at birth but go through what appears to be male puberty or you have your karyotype tested and a Y chromosome is found, then the possibility that you are in fact male (and were indeed male at birth) needs to be thoroughly investigated. Or at least, it should be if you want to compete as a woman at the Olympics.

And then went through male puberty, revealing a DSD, meaning that classification was incorrect. It's really not that complicated.

The person you are currently bullying was identified as female at birth.

So was Caster Semenya, and that was found to be an error.

Or do you still believe Semenya is female?