to exclude my friend from a holiday because she's got a boy?

[brownmouse]

regular here blah blah (we need an acronym for this )

I have a small group of 4 friends, we all have 1 child of the same age (5)

One of us has a boy

I am arranging a summer break for us all but the three of us with girls really don't want the other person coming along. The girls play nicely together while we sit around talking. The boy is loud and whacks the girls and is constantly full of energy, and is constantly knocking into us, interupting our conversation.

We'd like a summer BREAK where we sit around while the girls play. If we invite the mum-of-boy it won't be a break, it will be noisy and stressful.

Should we arrange it and exclude her, or just invite her and accept that it will just be a child-focussed holiday?

'It will all change when they're teens, '

It's just as bad to stereotype that girls are all difficult teens as it is that all boys are naughty and noisy as young children.

Are you all long standing mates from pre-children, or friends because you met through having kids at about the same time?

If the former, I really don't see why you can't do 'girly package holiday', without this boy & his mother. Just because you like her doesn't mean your dc automatically have to be chums.

If the latter, you'll probably drift apart as the dc get older & have less in common, anyway.

I suppose I'd probably invite mum&son & risk it (especially if it's going to be a cheapo few days rather than holiday of a lifetime - or do the one night idea). Then if it is a disaster, next time you could spin it to the mum as obviously not being her boy's idea of fun (I'm sure it isn't actually, if the girls don't want to play with him & he's constantly being ticked off).

& no, I don't think YABU

Not at all I have young children and so see many many children at toddler groups and schools and trained as a secondary school teacher. Stereotypes are not always the right fit for all, but sadly most girl are more difficult than boys during adolescence (hormones raging) and boys are mor lively than girls pre-school, go and look into any nursery or playground, it's true.
I hope you weren't saying that I thought boys were naughty, btw as I do not believe this to be so, at all.

I think that you have to be realistic about sharing holidays with friends otherwise it is all too easy to fall out. When I have shared holidays I have gone with very laid back people and it has worked fine. I used to go with a couple of families and it was fantastic, the DCs, a mix of boys and girls, all got on and it was very relaxed because they just all played together happily-the adults were fine because we were relaxed about cooking and had a central kitty and similar expectations. I also went with a friend whose DC was 4 yrs older than mine but again it was very relaxed. I have other very good friends that I realised that I couldn't have a holiday with, one has a DC just a month older than mine but the boys just didn't get on and another had DCs who would have got on but she would have had rigid rules and different expectations. In the case of the OP I really wouldn't want to spend a precious holiday with a badly behaved DC (I have nothing against boys having 3 of my own)and just wouldn't do it.I wouldn't think it fair to exclude the mother so would holiday without any of the group. Perhaps suggest just a weekend away instead.

Firstly, it is irrelevant if she has a boy or not, although i do think boys are more energetic and boistrous than girls - is that a bad thing??

What you are doing is ostracising someone who has a child that sounds like a handful, i would say then that she probably needs the break just as much as the rest of you. But saying that, the fact that the three witches of you have have been sitting around discussing her son in her abscence, i'd say she is better off without you.

You also mention that you want your holiday not to be child focused - might i suggest you organise some childcare then and go on your own. I thought family holidays were meant to be child focused, or are you just taking the children because you have to and are happy to take the girls because you can have an adult holiday whilst they entertain themselves???

Enjoy

Wow, am shocked you would consider excluding 1 friend based on the sex of her child. You sound like you don't really like her child and would just rather he wasn't there, sod you friends feelign aye You just want it all pretty and pink.. Well girls can be louder, scream, are more high pitched, can be spiteful and catty with one another, and ohh can gang up on others and exclude them from their games. Sounding familiar, like anyone you know????!

YABU

I didn't think it was based on the sex of the DC, I thought it was based on behaviour. I am surprised that so many people would be happy to resign themselves to a stressed holiday when they don't have to!

Wow! I see everyone decided to discuss this rationally while I was gone.

So when you all go on holiday you take all your friends every time. What happens if you have 14 friends? It must be tricky to organise.

Most people have close friends, not so close friends and acquaintances on a curve of sorts. Where do you draw the line? How about neighbours you talk to quite a bit?

If you ever go anywhere without taking all of the people you know I hope you're very ashamed

/looks around for a bucket to be sick in.

But the OP isn't talking about taking everyone she knows; she's talking about her three close friends discussing holidays but leaving one behind for reasons that could be got round if some thought went in to it I think... very different IMO

I think you go on holiday with the people you want to go on holiday with, not with the people you feel you ought to go on holiday with . That means it has to work for all of you. The group of friends I was in with my second child all had girls. I wouldn't have wanted a child like my very boisterous first (male) child to have been on holiday with that group, IYSWIM. Depends on your friend as to how she will take it - tho she probably will know herself that she wouldn't relax on that holiday. Expect she'll be a bit upset tho too.

(P.S. should add I'm not reading this as being based on the sex of the child, rather one whose behaviour will upset the balance of the rest of the group)

my point is that they probably all have other friends they didn't even consider inviting. This is normal.

If I heard that some friends of mine were going on holiday together my first thought would NOT be "why didn't they invite me" since they would have also not invited lots of others for one reason or another.

You have a choice here - a lot of posters here think you are being a bad friend to want a holiday without this energetic child.

Well it's your holiday - I know I don't get a lot of time to relax myself, and the LAST thing I would want is to have some energetic child being boisterous when I would have to do something about him.

Perhaps the OP hasn't made it clear to the boy's mum that she would have to sort him out herself.

I've been on holiday with friends and family who have kids of all ages and I always end up looking after all the kids - some of them I have VOWED never to go on hols with ever again - as they all had a holiday but I did not. I now go on hols with very firm boundaries set out in advance as to how much 'free childcare' I will provide for their kids (none). On hols with me, each parent is responsible for their own - unless we go out alternating nights and babysit, when all kids are in bed.

I'm a responsible parent to my Dd, and she knows how to behave if we are in a restaurant for eg... but I would think it the holiday from hell if one of the kids or more were acting up and their parents did nothing about it... boys of girls

Just my tuppunce.. and as I say I don't get many days off.. so I guard my 'family holiday' very carefully.

I don't really see a need to get on moral or philosophical high horses - this is real life - and folks need to know they can have a stress free (as possible with kids) holiday.

A choice beckons, and I feel we should respect the decisions made, and the concerns aired - after all we don't know all the circumstances the OP has in her day to day life, and how the suggested added stress she would find a holiday with this family would affect her.

I'm curious. When the four of you get together, do the children just play on their own? Or do you organise something that would interest ALL of the children? I can see where the boy would be acting up out of boredom, whereas if the adults took the time to prepare some activity that interested ALL of the children, his behaviour may very well be different.

Also, how exactly would you expect this to impact your "get togethers" with the 4 friends and children AFTER the holiday? Do you think she will be comfortable when you have an "in" joke from the holiday or story from the holiday and you're all laughing about it and she doesn't get it? Or worse yet, if you all clam up and don't mention the holiday at all when you chat, so she feels even more excluded and left out? or how the boy may feel if he hears the girls discussing their holiday together that he didn't get to go on? Just something to consider, IMO.

It's a bit of an odd situation, really. But then, I wouldn't take a holiday with friends, and certainly wouldn't take one of my children but not the others.

I think that the problem is that as a group you are coming to a natural parting of the ways. Up to about the age of 5 you can meet up with friends and a collection of DCs quite successfully. At about 5 or soon after the DCs want to make their own friends and start to moan if they know they are going to see certain children. You have to start seeing your friends on your own and let DCs make their own friendships.

The last two posts are interesting - when we get together we don't organise anything for the kids, we just let them play. To be blunt if one child needs things organising (I've no idea what) then I think that should be the mother's job. TBH he has always been hard work, even when we've gone to suitable play areas etc. The girls just play. We DO tend to meet in parks now or the house with the garden so he can play outside.

But yes Abbey there is an element of reaching a parting of the ways, I think, and that is becoming clearer as time goes by.

We can't really arrange a holiday without kids because it's not fair on the husbands to look after all the children.

My overall feeling about this is that I would be upset if people felt obliged to invite me to everything, even when they would prefer the dynamic without me. I can say this for certainty because I have a very over-bearing mother who always insists on being invited to everything, even when it's totally inappropriate.

My siblings often go on holiday without me now and they have been honest about this and said it's because they don't like children being around when they are relaxing. I don't blame them at all. I am not so big-headed as to assume that my and my children's presence makes any event BETTER. I'm sure a lot of the time it makes things very different and sometimes people would prefer me and them NOT to be around.

I sort of assumed everyone would feel this but it seems I am totally wrong.

By NotABanana on Wed 16-Apr-08 19:14:12

You criticise someones child, you criticise them.

I was thinking about this last night and realised from people's responses that I hadn't explained what I meant. I knew what I meant but others clearly didn't.

I was meaning that if someone criticises your child it is personal. I can't believe most people wouldn't be hurt if told that someone doesn't want to spend time with their child because of their behaviour.

Good post, brownmouse.

OKay.

haven't read all of thread but yes yabu. I suspect that there's more going on than just the childs gender tbh.

i think by age 5 mixed gender groups can be helpful, stops girls being too cliquey and catty and the boys being too wild (although not all girls/boys fit these stereotypes).

really hurtful for your friend to exclude her and i speak as someone who was irrevocably excluded from NCT group get togethers for reasons I shalll never fathom.

Holidays are a testing time! You hear over and over again about people who are good friends but then on holiday they fall out because they are thrown together and small irritations become huge. I have had a good time going away with friends but only because I was pretty sure that we were compatible to start with. I don't have a lot of money for holidays so I am afraid that I would be selfish and not choose to go with a DC who would irritate me the whole time (the boy issue has nothing to do with it).
If you think the mother of the DS will be upset to be left out then I wouldn't feel comfortable going away with the rest. This group friendship has a very limited time span, they can't continue with the DC dynamics for many more years.

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