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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to exclude my friend from a holiday because she's got a boy?

574 replies

brownmouse · 16/04/2008 12:37

regular here blah blah (we need an acronym for this )

I have a small group of 4 friends, we all have 1 child of the same age (5)

One of us has a boy

I am arranging a summer break for us all but the three of us with girls really don't want the other person coming along. The girls play nicely together while we sit around talking. The boy is loud and whacks the girls and is constantly full of energy, and is constantly knocking into us, interupting our conversation.

We'd like a summer BREAK where we sit around while the girls play. If we invite the mum-of-boy it won't be a break, it will be noisy and stressful.

Should we arrange it and exclude her, or just invite her and accept that it will just be a child-focussed holiday?

OP posts:
macdoodle · 16/04/2008 20:24

hahahahah am PMSL Brownmouse I got exactly the same abuse and crucifiction (?sp) for DARING to criticise another child - I had the wrath of MN poured on my head for days and revived and revived - until I actually became quite shaken wondering if I was the terrible vicious nasty cow I was being made out to be....now I am quite a hard cow but TBH the whole experience shook me a bit - am finding MN a bit vicious nowadays and sticking to my lovely PN board...
I also asked for the thread to be withdrawn (it wasn't) as I was worried my lovely friend (like you) would be upset though she was aware of my feelings (like you) I was concerned the amount of scorn and vitriol would make her feel she had to be upset with me IYSWIM??
Anyway you do what you want just ignore all these righteous critics who obviosuly never ever have a thought other than those wonderfully pure ones

catsmother · 16/04/2008 20:30

Brownmouse ...... you are not mean, a cow, a bitch or shit.

You have simply been honest about a child's friend, and offended all those who think it's sacrosanct to ever imply criticism of a child. I'm sure you're quite intelligent enough to realise that the behaviours and personality he's exhibiting at age 5 are due to the way he's been brought up ...... however, that does not alter the fact that the child you see before you is is difficult and unpleasant to deal with. I'm sure you wish him no ill but fact is fact and I bet you wish that wasn't the case. If a child has been brought up with inappropriate - or no - boundaries, if they are spoilt or selfish, and those behaviours are what you see, it's feasible that in some children there is actually nothing to like ...... to like someone, adult or child, there has to be some spark, and there certainly has to be positivity of some sort displayed. It's not your fault if that isn't the case.

Despite that, you have so far maintained your friendship with his mum (who you earlier said you thought the world of, or words to that effect) which tells me that in reality, you have no doubt pasted on a smile and welcomed them into your home, with all that entails, i.e. quite a bit of effort and diplomacy I'd imagine. You do though have every right to baulk at a prolonged period of time with this particular child. A holiday is quite different to an afternoon or even a day, and, as quite a few other level-headed posters have commented, for most people holidays are precious, don't grow on trees and you are therefore entitled to wish for a stress-free holiday the way you want it. Don't apologise for that.

As I said before I bet most of us know - but don't like - friends of friends, and relatives too for that matter, with whom we maintain a polite relationship in order to retain the friendship of the people who link us, but to whom we would have no connection to if the common link didn't exist. There is someone like that in most people's lives I suspect. I very much doubt if all your critics here would want to go on holiday with the person in their lives who falls into that category either.

I'm really very shocked by the vitriol you've received.

DirtySexyMummy · 16/04/2008 20:46

Susie - I never back-pedalled. I said she and her friends were being complete bitches, and I have explained what that means.

Many people have assumed that when one used the word 'bitch' they mean it as a purely derogatory insult. It does have a meaning, and I used it in its correct context.

I don't think that MN has necessarily become 'more vicious', I just think people are posting things like this, which I personally find offensive and nasty. And I am not afraid to say so, and I make no apologies for that. And believe me, I would say the same thing to the person face to face. Absolutely.

QuintessentialShadows · 16/04/2008 20:48

It is not actually criticizing a child that is so disagreable, it is planning a holiday and leaving ONE person in a group of friends out.

yurt1 · 16/04/2008 20:50

Do agree with QS. It's the way things are done. I don;t expect people to be able to cope with ds1. But my friends go out of their way to arrange things that would allow us to be included where possible. That doesn;t mean we're invited to everything, but we are invited to everything we would expect to be iyswim-0 even if it means alterations have to be made to plans.

SSSandy2 · 16/04/2008 20:51

I just think we should all be baking lemon meringue pies now or something and in fact I'm going to find that thread and see if anyone posted an idiot-proof recipe on it

Original poster
brownmouse · 16/04/2008 20:52

I can't believe you think my OP is the problem here DSM

Certain people CHANGE THE DYNAMIC of a situation, and sometimes that dynamic might not be compatible with all social occasions

We've done Butlins and Centerparcs to death, believe me. It's either filthy with chips, or pleasant with a bloody massive bill. Neither really ideal.

OP posts:
Alambil · 16/04/2008 20:54

They have a sale on ATM so could be pleasant without the bill; especially splitting it 4 ways?

What about camping abroad; again, plenty of space for kids to run about/be quiet as they want?

Somewhere with a kid's club; dump the kids on the carers and chill out in peace?

I'm sure if you really want a holiday, we can collectively think of something?

DirtySexyMummy · 16/04/2008 20:54

Well, you obviously think it is okay to exclude one friends because the fact she has a son does not fit in with the 'dynamic' of this holiday.

So go ahead, leave her out. I hope she understands your logic.

Still, if you are so sure you are right, I can't understand why you would name change?

QuintessentialShadows · 16/04/2008 20:55

Yes, but can you not imagine the situation? "Hey, we are all going on holiday, but you and your son are not invited. Meet up as usual next week?"

yurt1 · 16/04/2008 20:56

You can usually do things to change the dynamic though if you want to (see my earlier post about our successful holiday last week).

dejags · 16/04/2008 20:58

Poor you Brownmouse. You set yourself up for a fall with this thread - you won first prize for today - a good kick up the arse for being honest

FWIW, although I totally agree with your sentiment, I can see how much this would hurt your friend if she found out.

Terribly difficult situation, rather you than me. I think I'd just wimp out on the holiday all together.

QuintessentialShadows · 16/04/2008 20:59

I guess even girls tire of sitting around doing nothing while you do the same. Could you not plan some activities that all children could do? Go on a cycle ride? A trip to the beach to explore? A daytrip to nearby villag? There is lots that you can DO together as a group, or in two groups, in between sitting about. You might find all children play better along if they get to expend some energy.

Original poster
brownmouse · 16/04/2008 20:59

Not a camping fan

It was just the idea that one of us had never been abroad, and the others were saying 'we could do that now the girls are older, we could take them to a crap package hotel in Lanzarote or something'

But no, the problem is that the boy would be bored with the princess stuff and like you say, a bored 5 year old boy is no fun at the best of times

We don't really have any money anyway

Was just an afternoon of nice fantasising

OP posts:
Original poster
brownmouse · 16/04/2008 21:01

dejags am definitely going with the wimping-out approach

OP posts:
shineoncrazytalula · 16/04/2008 21:01

agree with that..centerparcs..what a rip off!

we could of built a small extension for the price we paid for a weeks hoilday there.

Kitti · 16/04/2008 21:01

when you go on holiday with children (no matter how well behaved/nicely they play together) it really HAS to be a child-focused holiday. Why not do a coach trip to Paris or something that invludes a couple of days in Disneyland Paris. 2 parents and 2 kids per hotel room and you could all swap around so you get to spend one night with each mother/child and do the same during the days activities - going off as 2 mums with 2 kids and then swap around in the afternoon and just get together all 4 in the evenings?? I totally understand that this child is difficult and his mum seems to lack the power to discipline or just thinks it's better parenting because she was badly mistreated herself as a child but unfortunately if you don't discipline your child it works out stressful for everyone not just the parent. Take a short holiday all 4 of you with the boy as well and see how it goes. It might be stressful but give it a chance and if it doesn't work out at least you've given it a try.

QuintessentialShadows · 16/04/2008 21:02

You dont have to go camping. You can rent a villa in France. Sit along the pool, or go out explore. It does not have to cost so much if shared between the four of you. You can hire cycles there, and I am sure there is lots to do locally.

Alambil · 16/04/2008 21:03

there it is again though; "a bored 5 year old boy is no fun at the best of times"

a bored 5 year old child is no fun at the best of times .... really!

Pavlovthecat · 16/04/2008 21:03

YABU. Its not a decision that 5 YOs are in a position to make is it?

Original poster
brownmouse · 16/04/2008 21:07

Why are half the psoters saying that I am being sexist about boys, and the other half saying they hope I get a boy next time?

I'm getting mixed messages

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadows · 16/04/2008 21:08

Boys are lovely. Boys are so much fun. I have two. We have action packed holidays, though!

DirtySexyMummy · 16/04/2008 21:09

Well.. if you were to take the cheap package holiday in Lanzarote option, then I am sure there will be plenty of other 5yo boys running wild there, so you won't need to exclude said friend.

Alambil · 16/04/2008 21:09

the half saying they hope you have a boy is so you get "landed" with a "lively" child; it could well be a girl but the emphasis is that boys are livlier in this thread, it seems.

PosieParker · 16/04/2008 21:15

I do understand you're predicament, I had a friend with badly behaved children and we are no longer friends. If this friend is close you could ask her if her little boy would be bored because the girls will sit and play and he'll want to do boys stuff, she may decline anyway. Or you could compromise and do energetic stuff in the morning and quiet chats in the afternoon, afterall girls are and need to be active too.
I do think many mothers of girls have a warped idea of what naughty is though and I saw it with my own friends too. Those that had girls (I have both) seem to think the moody whining is not as bad as the upfront noisey charging of boys. It will all change when they're teens, but in the meantime I think you have to accept going with all of them. I do understand that it's your holiday but is it worth messing up your friendship.
Just curious how have all of you ended up with only one child? That must be really unusual. Having more than one can make you a little more accepting about other children.
To exclude your friend would end the friendship and you can't tell her it's because of her son as that would be dreadful. Do you think your daughter could be asked to play with him and include him so he doesn't feel so bored as it sounds like the girls leave him out. Lessons all round.

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