to exclude my friend from a holiday because she's got a boy?

[brownmouse]

regular here blah blah (we need an acronym for this )

I have a small group of 4 friends, we all have 1 child of the same age (5)

One of us has a boy

I am arranging a summer break for us all but the three of us with girls really don't want the other person coming along. The girls play nicely together while we sit around talking. The boy is loud and whacks the girls and is constantly full of energy, and is constantly knocking into us, interupting our conversation.

We'd like a summer BREAK where we sit around while the girls play. If we invite the mum-of-boy it won't be a break, it will be noisy and stressful.

Should we arrange it and exclude her, or just invite her and accept that it will just be a child-focussed holiday?

Bitches is a plural for bitch. A bitch is someone who bitches about other people.

I apologise for the confusion, I shall rephrase the original point to 'you and your friends are a group of people who bitch about someone else'.

Everyone that has jumped in and slated brownmouse for her honesty ( I bet she regrets it now) can you say HAND ON HEART that there isn't ONE child in your circle of friends that you really do not like spending time with, no matter how much you like the mother?

And if such a holiday was in the offing you wouldn't be slightly heavy of heart at the thought of going away with a pain in the backside ? Regardless of gender.

I must be sooo 'idealistic and selfish' if I am the only one who thinks ike that!

But I wouldn't seek to exclude someone. If I wasn't happy about going because of someone else, I wouldn't go. I would make up a reason as well. It's the excluding idea that really is hurtful I think.

If you don't like it, don't go but don't be horrible to someone else. Help them.

Where have I EVER given the indication that was have "bitched" about my friend? Where have I criticised her?

This thread is similar to brownmouses...what a different reaction that OP received...

here

I think LewisFan has a point. Is there not some sort of compromise that could be worked- separate chalets or something.

We've just come back from our first family holiday for 4 years with all 3 boys. My Mum and Dad came to help us travel (south of England to north of Ireland - long long drive) and then they cleared off whilst we stayed with in laws- and dh's sister and kids came too. It worked because we had our own separate house. Everyone else piled in together and we met up for meals and for some time in the big house each day, but we also had time out in our own house and each evening alone.

I was dreading it. Lots of people on the holiday can't really cope with ds1 (severely autistic) for too long. But it worked really well and all 3 boys (and their cousins) loved it. We rarely get to meet up (different ends of the country-I haven't seen dh's sister or kids for 2 or 3 years).

Well, I agree with ex-pat, you worded your OP badly and got people's backs up, but right now you are just planning your holiday and trying to figure out what will or won't make it relaxing.

Is it possible the girls are a bit too interested in princessy fairy pink stuff still? Just a thought. AT five, my dd (also 5) has grown out of all that, but has not yet reached the stage of being self-conscious around boys. She loves boys.

I would ASK your friend anyway, she may turn it down because she can't face the onerous task of disciplining her son and trying to control him under the spotlight of 3 of her friends!! BUT, even if she does come, YOU don't have to discipline her son, that's still her job. So you can still relax so long as your own children behave.

I would have a chat with the girls and talk to them about meeting the boy half way though. Thinking about games that he might like too.

I have a girl and a boy. Not a girl-hater at all. I can see both sides to this. You want a holiday fair enough. But a holiday is for a fortnight or ten days. A friendship can be forever. I'd rather have a good friend 'in the bank' so to speak. NOT THAT I WOULDN'T LOVE A RELAXING HOLIDAY BECAUSE OH MY GOD I WOULD LOVE ONE.

maidamess - thats a very different situation though.

brownmouse - If you and your friends haven't been bitching, and by that I mean complaining and griping about the boy, then I must presume that this whole thought process is your own. Therefore, my advice would be to see how the other mothers feel, and you may find that it is only you that feels this way, as it is a rather unaccepting viewpoint that I feel you may find others do not share.

maidamess- yes I think dynamics are difficult. I can;t spend time with prissy kids for example they drive me insane and I wouldn't take ds1 to their house (too much hassle). Give me a boisterous boy trashing the place anyday- he would fit in with our dynamics

I do think that there are ways though that if you are friends with someone and you value their friendship that you can make it work. Honestly the fact that the holiday we've just had worked (ask anyone who knows me I was having full on panic attacks about it for the 6 weeks before we left) does show that it can be done. Ds1's behaviour (at 9 year old severely autistic) will, I guarantee be 100 times worse than the behaviour of the child in the OP. And everyone else there managed to enjoy their holiday too. Some space is the key in these sorts of situations.

Dirtysexymummy has a point. If this problem exist in your mind, and is not shared by the others, then maybe you should rethink going away as a group.

Or, have you all sat down and discussed that you dont want this one mum and her child with you?

maidamess - I can say that other peoples kids dont bother me!
My friends children are all lovely, DD is the bossiest, loudest one out the lot of them (boys AND girls).
Family children - most of them are really sweet, and some are a little live-wires. Including the nephew on my side who tripped dd up on purpose on her 2nd birthday, until DH told him he was going to "pick him up and put him in the dining room by himself". Issue dealt with and crisis diverted.

Aren't threads predictable. Honestly.. the way they go, is set is stone. A (slightly radical) opinion.. a tide of outrage.. a few calm posts.. an alternative view.. then the tide turns and in comes the opposite tide of outrage, and everyone busily checks they aren't publically being seen to be posting the oppostite opinion to their Mumsnet friends (even if they'll never admit this, or delcare otherwise!).. and if they have they wonder if she'll speak to them after this...

People express outrage and "shock" that people say the things they do..why? I am not saying it's right.. but it's what happens, on many threads, because they can, because they are words on a screen, and it's so easy to do even though it doesn't make it right,.. it's even easy to be much more offensive than you might have meant.

(Maybe DirtySexyMoney didn't mean to be quite as "forceful" and insulting (?) but it came out that way because she felt so strongly (for whatever personal reason) about this issue (I'm the same; felt urge to go off on one because I have my own issues about my own routinely excluded child.

Maybe brownmouse didn't mean it all the way it sounded.. and to word it the way she did... we all cock up from time to time.

Expat for instance, you mention you have had insults deleted before "and rightly so", so you've done it too. For most of us prolific Mners.. it happens. Doesn't mean any of us and not nice people.

Although I doubt we all are )

So it isn't possible to mention a "difficult" child without being a "complete bitch"? We HAVE all noticed that he's the one hitting everyone and breaking stuff and shouting. And yes sometimes we might pass a raised eyebrow and a sympathetic joke when she's not around. We don't sit around discussing it FGS we are not 14, but when we were fantasising about going abroad it was really an idea for the girls.

oh send him here. I love kids like that. (Don;t bring the girlies (or boys) sitting neatly colouring in though- they can't cope with our house).

I have not called you names brownmouse, there are some suggestions in posts with no name calling.
Though I still would be upset if a friend of mine wanted to exclude me because of my child.

If this was a full family holiday, with DHs and all the other siblings going too (I think Brownmouse said they all had other children) I would think it very hard on the one friend and her child to be excluded from a group they are normally part of.

But since this is already a selective holiday, with some siblings being taken and others left with dads, because it is intended to be a bit girly and something the girls specifically would enjoy (at least, that is what i have distilled from the many OP posts) I think BrownMouse is being over-bashed.

It's quite normal and ok to "mention" one; possibly not quite as acceptable to plan to go away with him and his mother, taking the closeness of the group friendship into consideration of course.

without, sorry! Talking shite now!

No if it was a full family holiday then it would be fine - although DH is refusing to think about such a thing because of this, which is fair enough I totally understand his point of view

Yes they are very girlie, they want to play princesses all day I'm afraid, which is OBVIOUSLY of no interest to him

IDEA SCRAPPED

did I mention that

So you are now NOT going on the holiday?

If so - I think you possibly need to talk to your friend regarding her son.

I am utterly disgusted by the majority of this thread. Wholly agree with Expat, and have already said similar earlier on

Dirtysexymummy:It appears you are desperately back peddling by saying it was not a personal attack and by saying that you were not calling her a bitch in the obscene sense of the word.

Utter Rot. Its obvious and plainly transparent that that is infact what you meant, merely by the remainder of your post.

I also feel this should be removed, the whole thread. Brownmouse is receiving a number of incredibly unpleasant attacks on her character, for being honest, and basically saying she would rather go on holiday with out someone in particualar. That is the long and short of it.

Are you all seriously suggesting, that you would want to go on holiday with each and every one of your friends? AND their children? Are you honestly all saying that you think all your friends children are fantastic, and have no problems at all with any of them?

I'd be incredibly surprised if that really were the case. I mean, really look at all your friends and their children, and then say if you would go away with them.

I have many friends, most of which I do love dearly. Those I don't love do mean the world to me. It does not mean I would want to spend a holiday with them all. A few of them, yes, for sure, and have done so. Some of them, I'd consider it, with certain assurances ( i.e. doing your own thing some of the time, meeting up in the evening, type of thing.) And yes, there are a few i'd never spend more than a night with. It doesn't mean I think any less of them, or that i'm a crap friend....

Every time I look at this thread, I"m more jaw droppingly shocked at the way in which some of you are speaking to this person. I would bet money on the fact that if you were all face to face, you would not be so down right rude.

I also agree with the person that said ther seems to be a huge amount of anger on the boards recently. I don't know why it's increased. I just hope it dies down again. I really do

walk away from it brownmouse and think it through in peace in a couple of days time

the word "complete" before "bitches" doesn't help your explanation either

Does it have to be scrapped? there are a million types of holiday that can cater for ALL your needs?

I think the horizon may need to be expanded from "girlie, abroad..." if you really want a holiday with your mates; that's all.