Is the Union Jack racist?

[cupcaske123]

Eamonn Holmes had a bit of an argument with a guest on GB News as to whether the Union Jack is racist.

I understand that the George Cross is associated with the Far Right but had never associated the Union Jack with racism.

Apparently people at a village hall in Norfolk didn't want to be accused of racism for flying the British flag.

I think it's madness, what do you think?

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/eamonn-holmes-gb-news-union-jack-b2595611.html

No it’s not & I think the country has gone mad and seriously down hill.

The UK is not the only country to use the union flag.

See Australia and others...

Are they racist?

She was comitting a literal hate crime.

Geri Halliwell had a huge peace symbol on the back of her famous Union Jack dress, in case people associated it with national front. That was in the mid 90s.

It would depend on the context. Someone wearing a Union Jack t-shirt or jacket: absolutely not in the slightest.

When people have huge St George Crosses covering their windows or in a flagpole in the back garden it would make me go hmmm a bit. It wouldn’t necessarily make me think they were far right or racist but that they had a certain mindset about England and associate strongly with it

Within that a subset of people will be far right but most won’t. I have to say I think having your identity so closely linked to your nationality that you feel the need to shout it to the world like that makes me think people are a bit limited. If the most interesting thing you have to tell people about yourself is that you are English then you probably aren’t very interesting.

Both sad and bonkers that people in an English village are scared or ashamed of the national flag. We should be able to display them anywhere we like, just as in every other country in the world.

@Greally ,one tries. My dad told me that when I was a kid.

The Union Jack is a great looking flag, I’ve never understood why we don’t have the Welsh dragon on it, though. Anyone know why? Seems only fair.

Game of Thrones put a lot of people off dragons. That white walker one, shudder! Harry Potter doesn’t help either. They get a bad rep.

Maybe that's why she had to start living under the assumed identity of a lady of the manor. Might also be why she only wears white now.

As are all the Olympic medal winners presumably? There are nuances in life and Norfolk council seems to be lacking common sense

I looked up the dress and her stylist apparently told her she couldn't wear it as it means the National Front. So she put a peace sign on the back.

It's not the council, it's a village who want to put the flag outside the village hall.

It would depend on the context. Someone wearing a Union Jack t-shirt or jacket: absolutely not in the slightest.

Well surely if they were wearing it, it would depend on their behaviour?

When people have huge St George Crosses covering their windows or in a flagpole in the back garden it would make me go hmmm a bit. It wouldn’t necessarily make me think they were far right or racist but that they had a certain mindset about England and associate strongly with it

Even during the Euros or World Cup?

Within that a subset of people will be far right but most won’t. I have to say I think having your identity so closely linked to your nationality that you feel the need to shout it to the world like that makes me think people are a bit limited. If the most interesting thing you have to tell people about yourself is that you are English then you probably aren’t very interesting.

Does waving a flag particularly because of a sporting occasion mean all of the above? I never thought it was that deep! 😆

I think it's worth considering why Welsh and Scottish flags are considered patriotic, but English flag has connotations of racism (at least, where I live)

@Nanana1

Not during the World Cup no. Sporting events are different. Also different if it’s a public building like a pub or a scout hut or a school.

I meant more when you go to neighbourhoods where loads of St George Crosses displayed in people’s windows outside of football events. Sometimes when they cover the whole window.

@NeedToChangeName

I think it's worth considering why Welsh and Scottish flags are considered patriotic, but English flag has connotations of racism (at least, where I live)

Because the English conquered the other nations in the British isles. And then went on to build a global empire which at its height covered a lot of the world. The Scots, Welsh are Irish didn’t have empires.

There a good few Emily Thornberrys on this thread.

The thread is about the Union Jack not the George Cross. The Union Jack was the symbol of the British Empire.

The Scottish were heavily involved in the British Empire as were some Welsh and Irish.

@Thepeopleversuswork ahh ok, it’s not really something I see outside of sporting events.

Countries tend to be critical of their colonisers. And the U.K. colonised more territories than any other. The U.K. isn’t “picked on” (because it’s not a primary school child). It gets held to account by the countries it colonised and left with a legacy of division and civil war that still affect us to this day.

Context is key. Flying a flag during the Olympics or at the village summer fete no problem, as a facial tattoo it may be interpreted differently

@cupcaske123

The thread is about the Union Jack not the George Cross. The Union Jack was the symbol of the British Empire.

I know and I have said I don’t think the Union Jack is racist (usually). I dont think the George Cross is inherently racist but at the moment it’s subject to a bit of “capture”.

But people saying: “why is it racist to fly an English flag and not a Welsh one” are missing the point. Obviously the flag of the nation which conquered all the other nations has a different symbolic register. That doesn’t automatically make it “racist”, but the flag of the underdog serves a different purpose to the flag of the conquering nation. It’s obtuse to pretend they are all coming from the same place.

Exactly

Yeah, if the aforementioned jack is itself a naval flag.

However, the Union Jack itself is NOT a naval flag and the Jack part of the name is literally a shortening of Jacobus which is Latin for James.

King James IV of Scotland and I of England ordered the flags creation which is how it got its name Jack.

Hence, The King's Jack and His Majesty's Jack before being replaced Union Jack from 1674.

It's named after its creator, King James IV & I.

The flagstaff wouldn't be invented for another 150 years which means it wasn't a naval flag nor was the Jack part derived from jackstaff. 👍

In the case of the Union Jack, the name does not refer to a small flag.

Whaatttt?!

The Scottish and Irish expanded the British Empire significantly further than the English managed to. Its where the phrase "Fighting Irish" and "Fighting Scottish" comes from.

The British Empire is not something you can completely pin on the English. Glasgow and Dublin definitely benefitted from the Empire a lot which you can still see in buildings and street names today. Think Belfast did to a lesser extent.