Is the Union Jack racist?

[cupcaske123]

Eamonn Holmes had a bit of an argument with a guest on GB News as to whether the Union Jack is racist.

I understand that the George Cross is associated with the Far Right but had never associated the Union Jack with racism.

Apparently people at a village hall in Norfolk didn't want to be accused of racism for flying the British flag.

I think it's madness, what do you think?

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/eamonn-holmes-gb-news-union-jack-b2595611.html

This pretty much sums up how I feel. Fine for athletes to use it. Fine to put coronation bunting up if you feel drawn to, when there's an actual coronation or jubilee but at other times I'm afraid I assume it's a racist or anti immigrant symbol.

as for feeling proud of my nation I have never felt prouder than last week when all the anti racists came out on the night we were supposed to have far right rioting. I love my country for that

No, it is not.

The Dutch have been very much looking the past in the eye. Their king even apologised for their history in slave trade. Didn’t mention the UK at all.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66076562.amp

We fly flags for football tournaments, including our club flags. We then take them down again because the national flags have been adopted by the far right and I don't want any association with that. Flags are not racist, but the circumstances in which they are displayed means that their non racist shelf life feels somewhat limited. Fine for occasions and sporting tournaments, a bit dodgy thereafter. As someone else said, patriotism/ nationalism is always slightly on the cusp of something more sinister.

Do you think Americans who fly their flag outside their homes and at every opportunity, despite their horrendous foreign policies, are sinister?

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched.
Guy de Maupassant
Brainy Quote®

I think that level of nationalism is always a bit suspect, yes, whatever nationality you're talking about. Adorning multiple buildings with national flags, unless it's a special celebration or event, always feels a bit insular and superior.

Yeah. There was a secret meeting. And everyone in all those countries was invited, and the British weren't. And someone said, 'Why don't we deflect from our colonial past by deflecting it onto the Brits?" and everyone else said, "Yes - we are quite happy to deflect onto them and to ignore our own histories." And then they all went out for drinks, and talked about us, the bastards.

I don't know how you found out about it, @Notmushroomforthis, but thank God you did.

It is a bit sinister.

I'm married to an American and spend quite a lot of time there. And Americans' relationship with their flag is very strange.

For a start, they have to pledge allegiance to it every day at school. It appears in every public building, on poles, on walls, above doors. There are all kinds of mad rituals around putting it up and bringing it down and folding it.

It occupies a sort of quasi-religious place in the collective American psyche. It seems indivisible from American-ness in a way that's not true of the Union Jack. Ours is just a flag. Theirs is a sacred object. And personally, I do find that rather sinister.

The British have institutions: the NHS, The Royal family, the BBC to hold in high regard. Not very many people hold all those institutions in the same regard - but pretty much everyone will have at least one of them entangled with their sense of Britishness. Not that they are worshipped - there is a weird love-hate quite complicated relationship but it is very entangled with our sense of ourselves as a Nation. Much more than the Union Jack. Whereas Americans relate to their flag/anthem more. The US flag is also tied in historically to their revolution and history.

In my opinion, their allegiance and reverence to the flag comes from the fact that the States is made up of people from all over the world with huge diversity in culture. It creates loyalty and a sense of unity to the States.

I have British bunting all over my garden bar. My dad is British-Indian and mum is English.

Stop this nonsense! We can be proud to be British

It’s just a flag.

I love that in America many people will fly the American flag outside their homes. It’s everywhere and it’s beautiful.

I wish I lived here in the USA. Such a gorgeous, largely proud and patriotic country. I hate being in the UK, but hey-ho. I guess vacations will have to do.

A sense of unity? Have you been there recently? Everyone you meet wants to know ‘whose side you’re on’. It’s distressing how divided the US is. It’ll take more than an over-revered flag to mend America.

Indeed. I’m not saying we have no sacred cows.

I was responding to the question of whether the American attiutude to their flag is ‘a bit sinister’.

What do you mean who's side you're on, regarding what?

Er…Coke and Pepsi.

Ah! Carbonated beverages are turning people away from loyalty to the flag. Fascinating.

Yes, because that's exactly what I'm doing by repeatedly referring to Scotland and Scots active, enthusiastic participation in the UK's Imperial endeavours

🙄

The only person "doubling down" here is you.

You made a risible attempt to virtue-signal, I've shown precisely why you were talking complete rot, and yet here you are still gibbering nonsense.

"Several posters"

Err no... You, and one other, who at least seems to be capable of grasping a simple concept.

Seriously?

Nothing better to do than dredge up a post from days ago when everyone else has moved on? There was more than 2 of us but as your comprehension is a bit dodgy I'm not surprised your maths is too.

No motivation to argue with a flat earther. Feel free to have the last word 👍

Obviously it’s not really Coke and Pepsi.

It’s McDonald’s and Wendy’s.

I’m sorry not to have given a serious answer. I didn’t think it could possibly be a serious question.

It's been great talking to you. Enjoy your weekend.