Is the Union Jack racist?

[cupcaske123]

Eamonn Holmes had a bit of an argument with a guest on GB News as to whether the Union Jack is racist.

I understand that the George Cross is associated with the Far Right but had never associated the Union Jack with racism.

Apparently people at a village hall in Norfolk didn't want to be accused of racism for flying the British flag.

I think it's madness, what do you think?

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/eamonn-holmes-gb-news-union-jack-b2595611.html

What actually happened was that during the parish council meeting discussing their new flag pole, some questions were asked about ongoing costs and how flags will be flown plus one parishioner present highlighted that flags can be decisive.
The flagpole is going ahead, complying with standards and risk assessments and the parishioner has been proven to be correct with people jumping on the bandwagon.

They also discussed dog fouling, Google maps, plants & grass, a defibrilator and other parish matters. Noise complaints at the pub were out of scope for the parish council

claxtonpc.norfolkparishes.gov.uk/2024/07/11/minutes-from-claxton-parish-councils-meeting-held-on-tuesday-2nd-july-2024/

No of course it's not and I always associate it with the Britpop era.

I stopped reading after 'Eamonn Holmes' and 'GB News'.

They also discussed dog fouling, Google maps, plants & grass, a defibrilator and other parish matters.

It’s Mumsnet-in-the-Marsh!

Pretty sure I learned on MN donkeys years ago that that distinction was done away with for the union jack a long time ago. It's fine to refer to it as the union jack on land.

Neither the Union Jack nor the George Cross are racist, but since flag wavers and displayers are often right-wingers or racist, it's hardly surprising that people who want to distance themselves from those kinds of views are not keen on the flags.

Exactly this.

@Getonwitit I am not even English nor do i live in England yet i happily raise it on St George's day. I also raise the Welsh flag, the Northern Irish flagon their Saints days, the Union flag on Trafalgar day and the Flag of Gibraltar on National day.

This is the weirdest thing I’ve ever heard.

Also so curious, what day do you fly the northern Irish flag (presumably you mean the Ulster banner? Which isn’t even really a neutral NI flag) but what day is the NI saints day??

It is the Union Flag if we are being picky
Union Jack is generally used when on a ship, altho' sadly, they are now interchangeable

It’s not racist, a country’s flag can’t be inherently racist (unless that country is inherently racist like apartheid South Africa or Nazi Germany for example).

The flag of St George isn’t racist either.

Unfortunately racists have co opted both flags at various times.

My recollection is that because the Union Flag was being used so much by racists, in around 1996 (the time of the Euro 1996 football tournament in England), efforts were made to popularise the St George’s flag as an alternative for ordinary football fans. You did see England flags using the Union Flag a lot before that.

Unfortunately the racists got hold of that one too, and now it’s seen as the main flag of the far right.

Many countries have far worse colonial histories. Gandhi couldn’t have organised the Salt March and used passive resistance if the UK had gunned everyone down like Belgium would have done.

The worst kind of ignorant snob that cannot see the irony of exposing your own ignorance with statements such like ‘Brexity and gammon’ whilst assuming you are superior to the less affluent people who choose to fly a flag.

Whether you are on a wind up or not, please don’t buy a house anywhere near me.

Incorrect!

It was always originally called The King's Jack and His Majesty's Jack before being called Union Jack from 1674 onwards.

The Jack part comes from the Latin Jacobus which means James as in King James VI of Scotland & I of England who styled himself the first Unionist King of the Kingdom of Great Britain. Hence, Union Jack.

It's a Royal flag and NOT a naval flag. The name was around long before the jackstaff on a ship was invented. 150 years before, to be precise.

Union Jack is perfectly correct.

Believe they mean St Patrick's Saltire and Northern Ireland's Saint's day is 17th March.

Personally, I have a little St Patrick's Saltire flag along with a little trio of Shamrocks on white flag for then.

And I wear blue - not green. May make yellow shamrocks next year too.

I don’t think I would particularly refer to Saint Patrick’s day as Northern Ireland’s saint day though …

Whether you would or not is irrelevant.

Fact is, St Patrick's Day is Northern Ireland's Saint's Day. It is also the Republic of Ireland's Saint's Day in addition to Nigeria and Monserrat.

That it's not exclusive to Northern Ireland doesn't prevent it being Northern Ireland's Saint's Day.

Would you argue St Andrew's Day isn't Scotland's Saint's Day?

After all, Romania, Russia, Greece and Ukraine amongst others also have it.

As it is, I've been developing my own specific symbols and baking for St Patrick's Day that doesn't fit the stereotype of green, leprechauns and all that. It's centred around Northern Ireland and symbols, e.g., hexagons for Giants Causeway.

This! None of the UK flags denote racism. We should all be flying the flag of our country proudly.

Nothing wrong with either flag. Unfortunately some absolute twats and a load of highly visible football hooligans have appropriated one or both and in their minds linked "pride in our country" and "pride in our flags" to racist, zenophobic views on life. They've ruined it for normal people who just want to show their sense of belonging / community. What else are they supposed to put up if they want to fly a flag?

Not everything English /British is racist by default!!!

I never knew that about NI’s patron saint. So ROI and NI have St Patrick in common. (And the world’s best rugby team of course.)

Also this!

So if someone is waving a union flag others would assume they were far right & racist just because of the flag?

According to the debate, a village in Norfolk wanted to fly the Union Jack outside their village hall and there was a big debate as to whether they would be perceived as racist.

I imagine that if you were wrapped in a Union Jack whilst throwing bricks and chanting racist slogans, it would be seen as a symbol of the Far Right.

However I think it's madness that the flag would be seen as racist outside a village hall.

So was Ginger Spice making a racist statement when she famously wore a Union Jack dress?

@DownNative ,
A "Jack" is a size of flag. It's flown from the "jackstaff", a small flagpole at the front of a vessel (usually, but not always, naval).
The jackstaff is shorter than the flagpole at the top of the ship and so the jack is smaller. It's about a quarter the size of an ensign.

@AllMyExesWearRolexes

Good knowledge!