Neighbours Autistic daughter

[Ashellwithin]

Good evening all,

I was recommended to seek advice on this forum by a friend. If anyone could advise, I would be very much appreciative.

I have been living in my flat for the past 12 years. During the first few years, we have had to deal with my neighbour's daughter horrific meltdowns (e.g., jumping on the floor, crying). She was 4 or 5 years old at the time and although I did complain to our Local Housing officer about this, I didn't take this any further as she was quite young and did not think it would be taken seriously. Plus, the meltdowns seemed to had settled during the years.

However, now that my neighbour's daughter is a teen, the meltdowns have started all over again and they are much worse. She will curse, shout, bang, throw things, slams doors, runs up and down. She is very loud! On those days where it has gotten too much, I have regrettably shouted to "Keep the noise down!", on a few occasions. But the noise was really grating me.

The neighbour (mum) struggles to calm down her daughter and often takes her out of the house for long periods of duration or I will see them both wandering in the streets (around midnight!). I have also seen quite a few professionals (I'm assuming as they have lanyards) come in and out of her flat which I take is to support the neighbour's daughter. So I do think the neighbour is trying to support her daughter the best way she can. However, the noise is unbearable and I can no longer take it. I have made a formal complaint to the council about the noise and have recorded the daughter's meltdowns as evidence.

Since then, a mediation meeting between the neighbour and I to resolve the matter. The meeting has not taken place yet as the neighbour always has something going on (so wondering if she is avoiding this). But I'm hoping to move to a new property or secretly wishing that they will kick out the neighbours and move them elsewhere.

Other than that, what else can I do? This is taken a toll on my mental health.

What is your resolution in this? I can't seem to understand what you want to achieve. To have them evicted? She's walking her daughter, 2 lone females, at midnight to appease you and you want her to do what else?
I know it must be frustrating for you but maybe you need to move as you said housing officer so you're renting.

Social landlords cannot fund sound proofing see link to judgement for details https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199899/ldjudgmt/jd991021/mills-2.htm

Just move,
You are in a much netter position to do so. Don't make the mothers life harder than it already is

There's no guarantee that if you did move or she did move that things would improve. You could get someone worse.

We own our house and next door owned theirs. We lived perfectly fine next door to each other for 23 years, then her husband died and she got a new boyfriend 6m later. He moved in and made our lives hell as he'd bang on the walls, shout stupid noises, boom his music into the early hours, get drunk and shout threats and they'd argue. When she threw him out he'd be away all of a week before he'd wheedle his way back in. Thankfully they moved after 2. 5 years of hell and we breathed a sigh of relief. A mother bought the house and moved in with her four kids. I almost wish dickhead was back here because these kids boom music until 3am and then another gets up early (at 10 to 5 as it was Saturday morning) and takes over and another does it all afternoon and often goes out into the garden at ear splitting volume. Wheb it's the daughter she often screams and shrieks into the night like she's being kidnapped and there's more often than not a friend staying over who does the same.

At least dickhead went to sleep on weeknights around 10 as he had to leave for work at half 6 most weeks. There's no stop from these lot and the mother keeps insisting she'll have a word but they ignore her. The council complaint is at listening stuff going in to catch "official evidence."

To be fair to the mother next to you, it does sound like she's doing as much as she can. I mean she's walking the streets for hours in the early hours of the morning.

I don't deny it's not soul destroying for you, I've been there and I'm living it now still. It makes you twitch and react and tense to the slightest noise and it makes you unwell.... But it'll also be doing the same to the mother and neither of them are doing it out of spite.

Have you tried noise cancelling headphones when she's at her worst? Ear plugs? White noise machines?. Do you try distract yourself or do you turn everything down and listen out for the noise twitching more and on edge waiting for the next one (been there. Need to stop doing it) I have to sleep in noise cancelling ear plugs often sadly.. Ironically they are so good that when I had to put them in on Saturday morning after one of the sons had woken me up 2 hours after the sister had stopped I slept through the fire alarm sounding just outside my room. Thankfully it was a false alarm and likely due to the humidity upstairs inside this time...! 🤦🏻‍♀️

I'm not advocating, I was asking a sincere and civil question and got your insults in return. Thanks.

Having taken diazepam in the past, I don't think it's the devil's potion; it can be quite fast-acting and effective in calming an individual. No one suggests it should be adminstered often enough to cause an addiction.

What is your suggestion?

This. Put yourself in the mum's shoes. I know it's a rubbish situation and not fair, but what do you expect your complaint will achieve?! Other than potentially tipping the mother over the edge.

And what about the next person in OP's flat?

Institutions aren’t all horrible. Mrs Thatcher pushed that view because it was cheaper to shut the homes down & dump on the families.

(Tories today still say dementia care is ‘up to the family’ when family can’t cope.

They don’t say that about cancer - it’s mh discrimination at its nastiest.)

Many specialist residences still exist for the ND. Our local one is really, really good.

Judges and the legal system despair of the current lack of residential care, particularly secure care. Some people really need it for a while.

Thanks to the ‘asylums are bad’ view, a lot of people (inc children ) end up homeless or in prison, and the rest of us aren’t exactly better off either. 175 secure ND beds for the under-16s in the UK; 27,000 requests for a place.

A lot of serious ND comes with physical problems that give you lower life expectancy. Dementia kicks in early. But people with Down’s syndrome, in particular, are living much longer and so no new home places are available. Specialist foster placements exist.

That’s all I know, and it’s a bleak picture. The trouble with incurable diseases is the bill. And the misery of care.

I've heard that the government hasn't been keeping doctors pay inline with inflation- but surely junior doctors can afford private rental?

And a paramedic I would expect to have the common sense to do a mutual exchange.

The fact is that social housing is needed for society's most vulnerable- people who would otherwise be evicted from privately rented- and if someone has the mental or physical means to move then they have more choice than someone who is disabled and probably already overcrowded with no other choice beyond an emergency housing bedsit hotel room or living in a tent in the streets.

This 💯

It's unethical to prescribe to minors as it genuinely is one of the only medications that can kill when used improperly.

There isn't just a physical dependence but there's a psychological dependence too.

I know long term users of benzos who were prescribed them for acute anxiety years ago and now have to be routinely prescribed them as drug and alcohol services don't really have the capacity to help wean them off and they may never be able to stop taking it.

They require a low daily dose to feel normal and when they're withdrawing they become extremely emotionally dysregulated but the substance is controlled and therefore they cannot always have access to it.

There's also a black market for benzos. You can buy it on the street like other drugs, and so it's got the capacity for abuse.

Children can't consent to all of these side effects and although most carers would not knowingly use these drugs to abuse or subdue their children the potential to be misused for the benefit of others and not for the benefit of the autistic individual is extremely high. It is essentially drugging children to make the lives of others more tolerable. It's hugely unethical.

The fact of the matter is that there are less negative consequences to that individual to let a meltdown play out than to non-consensually administer drugs that you should be under no illusion would be misused even unintentionally.

The goal is to ensure our young people have the support and tools available to remain emotionally regulated and feel safe, but what teenager feels emotionally regulated and safe all of the time? None. It's part of the teenage experience. There are physiological changes that are happening beyond their control. The power of hormones should not be underestimated.

I could go on and on and explain how the amygdala is physically different in autistic individuals and how that impacts their ability to process emotions and why they experience trauma to things neurotypical people wouldn't find traumatic, and why they experience emotions so intensely but I don't think mumsnet is the place for it and there are many Ted talks on it already.

Diazepam isn’t addictive if you take it for meltdowns.

Can’t think teenagers would get it though.

Ok then so what if the neighbour was a poorly paid care home worker who was caring for your granny in a care home and made a mistake while tired. The profession is neither here nor there. Many people do important jobs with loads of responsibility while living in social housing. They were called key workers during Covid remember? They were eveyones fucking Daddy then wernt they. And the residulisation and welfarization of social housing which is what its actually called when SH is only reserved for the most desperate is what has lead us to where we are today.

I can assure you that diazepam doesn't give a toss why you're taking it, it is still addictive irrespective of the reason.

I have an autistic son who has profound learning disabilities. He is non speaking, but vocalises very loudly for lengths of time. My other son is also autistic and has the most dreadful meltdowns.
The noise drives me up the wall, and so I do sympathise.
However, I don't think you are going to get the outcome you want here. I'm in social housing, and it's unlikely you'll get rehomed based off of one complaint. Your neighbour will not be evicted either as her child is disabled, and the noise cannot be helped. There isn't anything more she can do.

If your area is like mine, the best you can hope for is to be approved to go back on to the housing register to bid for other properties. The same goes for your neighbour. However, providing your neighbour and her daughter are in a 2 bed flat, they'll be considered to be adequately housed, as will you. So you will both be low priority and could be waiting years. Especially given that you live in London.

Mediation is there so you can find a mutually agreeable solution. It may be that your neighbour can have an OT assessment done. But this probably wouldn't benefit you as it's done to establish whether the property is suitable and safe for her child, not for the comfort of the neighbours.

There may be charities which would help fund sound proofing.

Does your neighbour actually want to move?

Unfortunately though, I don't know what the solution here is. It isn't fair on anyone. I dont think you should have to put up with this noise, and it's unfair that you might have to move, but these are currently your only options.

Please try and refrain from shouting at them and banging on the wall/ceiling. You may well exacerbate the situation, and your neighbour could use these examples in a complaint against you.

I was that mother when my severely autistic non verbal child lived with me. I was suicidal. He didn't sleep and screamed and charged around the house all night. The neighbour banged on the wall and shouted at him to shut up. As if he would.

I have some sympathy OP but believe me if I could have swapped places with you in a second I would have. People who don't have a severely autistic child can't begin to imagine the utter hell of a life it is and having neighbours shouting and banging on the wall is the very least of our concerns.

As a social housing tenant who has lived in the same flat since 1994 i have seen what you are talking about

It's taking a toll on YOUR mental health... FFS this poor woman and child are out walking at midnight. Have some compassion. Perhaps ask if there is anything you can do to help.

This could be me and my autistic daughter in 10 years.

Clarifying the ‘best interests’ doping argument - you’ve got to act in a person’s best interests, but the law also says those interests don’t outweigh other people’s.

If someone is a threat, or a potential danger, to others, it’s more than fine to protect other people.

I might suggest OP has some sympathy for this view.

I know this love, and was a keyworker during covid myself.

A care worker would also organise a mutual exchange. As this is also OPs only option if she wants her situation to change.

As I am providing the advice the OP actually asked for, rather than offering wishful thinking opinions based on fantasy of how things 'should' be.

FGS it’s not the OP’s fault the child is causing disturbance regardless of the cause. She shouldn’t have to put up with this level of noise. The poor mother will be demented, stressed and anxious too, having to listen to it and worry about fielding complaints.

The OP may not want mediation as it clearly won’t resolve the racket - it’s not deliberate, malicious or controllable. However, if she and the mother can use it ad a stepping stone to push the council into re-housing the family surely that will help? No point moving OP - any new tenant will face same issue.

Okay, I've been trying to resist getting on my soapbox here, but I cannot resist any more.

This thread is honestly a gift, if you have a black sense of humour. So far, we've had MNers tout compulsory institutionalisation of disabled children, and now we have the issue that an NHS campaign called STOMP was launched to solve.

What is STOMP? So glad you asked! It stands for Stopping The Over Medication of People with a learning disability, autism or both, because [p]eople with a learning disability are thought to be 16 times more likely and autistic people 7 times more likely to be prescribed an antipsychotic than the general population. It is this disparity that led to the creation of STOMP and STAMP as an NHS Long Term Plan commitment.

Long-term use of diazepam is linked with cognitive impairment and memory loss, and medication-induced cognitive decline is in general a very, very real issue in today's population of adults with learning disabilities, because of irresponsible prescribing in previous decades.

There can be many issues with moving the other family.

Changes to routines and schedules leading to more meltdowns and dysregulation, possible implications that invalidate other legally in place supports for the child like EHCPs and placements at schools or availability of alternative provision, a lack of support from community health services and this is just to name a few off the top of my head.

I think mediation would be good to establish this other family's needs as they may agree they need alternative housing but they also might disagree which would be completely valid, as there won't suddenly be a ground floor or detached or soundproof property available just because.

A lot of people on here clearly haven't lived with noisy neighbours it's absolute hell and turns even the calmest most rational people . It would make more sense for the neighbours to be moved somewhere suitable because the exact same issue will repeat itself with whoever moves in next but unfortunately the reality is you will be moved and the new people will also make the same complaints and the cycle will continue

As the mum of an autistic child maybe you could ask if there’s any way you can help? Have you got to know each other in the 12 years you’ve lived there? Sometimes a change of face is all that is needed to calm a situation. it will be a million times worse for the mum and I hope she has some support around her. I’ve found loop earplugs really help me when there’s lots of noise from my children so maybe you could try those or play music or the radio so the noise isn’t as obvious?
thankfully I’m very fortunate that I live in a detached house and all of my neighbours are absolutely wonderful and caring, they have all got to know my child/children very well and always come and help when they’ve seen I’m struggling on my own. Just knowing I have their support when I need it really helps me to feel I’m able to cope better in crisis situations.