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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbours Autistic daughter

361 replies

Ashellwithin · 12/08/2024 21:05

Good evening all,

I was recommended to seek advice on this forum by a friend. If anyone could advise, I would be very much appreciative.

I have been living in my flat for the past 12 years. During the first few years, we have had to deal with my neighbour's daughter horrific meltdowns (e.g., jumping on the floor, crying). She was 4 or 5 years old at the time and although I did complain to our Local Housing officer about this, I didn't take this any further as she was quite young and did not think it would be taken seriously. Plus, the meltdowns seemed to had settled during the years.

However, now that my neighbour's daughter is a teen, the meltdowns have started all over again and they are much worse. She will curse, shout, bang, throw things, slams doors, runs up and down. She is very loud! On those days where it has gotten too much, I have regrettably shouted to "Keep the noise down!", on a few occasions. But the noise was really grating me.

The neighbour (mum) struggles to calm down her daughter and often takes her out of the house for long periods of duration or I will see them both wandering in the streets (around midnight!). I have also seen quite a few professionals (I'm assuming as they have lanyards) come in and out of her flat which I take is to support the neighbour's daughter. So I do think the neighbour is trying to support her daughter the best way she can. However, the noise is unbearable and I can no longer take it. I have made a formal complaint to the council about the noise and have recorded the daughter's meltdowns as evidence.

Since then, a mediation meeting between the neighbour and I to resolve the matter. The meeting has not taken place yet as the neighbour always has something going on Hmm (so wondering if she is avoiding this). But I'm hoping to move to a new property or secretly wishing that they will kick out the neighbours and move them elsewhere.

Other than that, what else can I do? This is taken a toll on my mental health.

OP posts:
AquaFurball · 12/08/2024 23:06

Loonaandalf · 12/08/2024 22:28

How do you expect to solve the matter? I am rather confused as to what you think can be done. You come across quite entitled. This is a child with a severe disability by the sounds of it. If you can’t handle other peoples noise don’t rent. Assuming you can’t help but rent just like the girl can’t help her disability.

What if OP now tells you they are wheelchair bound and have no choice but to be in a downstairs flat? Would their severe disability be OK with you allowing them to rent now?

OP has put up with this for years. Years. How is it entitled to want to have some peace in your own home? You don't know anything about OP other than her mental health is suffering because she can't tolerate it anymore.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 12/08/2024 23:07

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:02

Not wanting to derail the thread but as there’s a lot of name calling now it seems as good a time as any. Is there anybody as old as me on here that can answer a question? In the 70s there seemed to be a lot less children with this as a problem does anyone on here know why it seems to be such a bigger problem now?

Not from the 70s, but happy to provide an answer.

Autistic children were banned from school, child protection laws were not as tightened, many forms of "punishment" were used as behaviour correctors, and many children suffered greatly from the trauma of that abuse that was permitted and were either kept at home indefinitely in fear of being beaten, masked very highly at the cost of their mental health, killed themselves, or were murdered, many teens and adults will also have been arrested and incarcerated because of a lack of legal and public understanding.

sweetkitty · 12/08/2024 23:08

I’m an ASN teacher and have had to write letters of recommendation for parents for the council requesting a house with a garden for their autistic child in part due to nasty neighbours. One Mum was at her wits end, she had her car keyed, social services phoned a number of times and just general nastiness shouted at her due to the noise her autistic DS made in her flat. Her mental health was down the toilet. Add to that lack of sleep for years and a violent child and you can only have empathy for the poor woman. Sadly it’s a common occurrence. I only spend 6 hours a day with my children with ASD and it’s hard work I can’t begin to imagine how difficult it is if your life is caring for them. I have nothing but empathy and respect for my parents and do everything I can to help them.

When your world is so scary and overwhelming and the only way you can communicate it is by having a meltdown (and we don’t even like the word meltdown now it’s period of dysregulation) you need people who understand. It’s so sad people are saying institutions and medications for this young woman.

I do have sympathy for the OP as well, I don’t know how frequent the poor young woman is upset but ear plugs/music might help. It sounds like the Mum is trying everything she can if she out at all hours. A house with a secure garden and a big trampoline would be ideal for you both.

Hoardasurass · 12/08/2024 23:10

BettyBardMacDonald · 12/08/2024 22:51

Yes but it's really too bad that we expect untrained parents to deal with severe issues pretty much on their own. There really should be massive infrastructure to support families with housing, respite, counseling, planning for the child's adult life / when parents are gone, etc.

I wonder, since everyone I know has medication for so many different issues, is there a medicine that would help calm people in the throes of a meltdown? Probably difficult or impossible to administer a pill in that situation, though. But something like diazepam? It can't be fun being the person having the meltdown either and a calming drug seems like a humane possibility. (I am not talking about turning disabled people into catatonic zombies for convenience, but just something to ease really volatile situations).

No there isn't any medication and as for your truly offensive suggestion of drugging children or anyone with diazipam are you serious. As an autistic mother to an autistic child I can say that meltdowns are hellish from both sides but you know the one thing that would make them completely unbearable is being drugged during 1.
Please think about what you are advocating before posting such offensive bs next time

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:11

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 12/08/2024 23:07

Not from the 70s, but happy to provide an answer.

Autistic children were banned from school, child protection laws were not as tightened, many forms of "punishment" were used as behaviour correctors, and many children suffered greatly from the trauma of that abuse that was permitted and were either kept at home indefinitely in fear of being beaten, masked very highly at the cost of their mental health, killed themselves, or were murdered, many teens and adults will also have been arrested and incarcerated because of a lack of legal and public understanding.

That is possibly the worst answer I could have got to that question but I kind of had a feeling that something like that was coming. Thank you for the education, sometimes you need to ask the question even though you know you’re not going to like the answer.

Scirocco · 12/08/2024 23:11

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:02

Not wanting to derail the thread but as there’s a lot of name calling now it seems as good a time as any. Is there anybody as old as me on here that can answer a question? In the 70s there seemed to be a lot less children with this as a problem does anyone on here know why it seems to be such a bigger problem now?

There are multiple contributing factors. For example...

Previously, people who were autistic and had difficulties with behaviour or mental health would be admitted to the old asylums - out of sight, out of mind. Now, people get to stay at home, which is generally much better for people. People used to keep their 'odd' children hidden to an extent, but now there's less drive to do this; in part, due to more opportunities for neurodiverse people to have a good quality of life in the community. So, there's greater visibility of neurodiversity in the community.

There are hereditary components to neurodiversity. Neurodiverse adults are more likely to have neurodiverse children. And more neurodiverse adults are surviving, living in the community, meeting people and having relationships.

Frazzled83 · 12/08/2024 23:12

It’s likely a combination of several factors;

  • heightened awareness meaning more children appropriately diagnosed and not mislabelled (as naughty or mentally ill for example)
  • better infant survival rates
  • there is a strong genetic component so that will be factor
  • autistic people are more ‘visible’ and less likely to be locked away in institutions
  • social media has allowed people who struggle with social communication to find each other and come up with a shared language
  • society is less and less hospitable to neurodivergent kids, particularly if they also have a learning disability. Classes are too big, teachers are too stretched and too many people are in situations like this where housing is inappropriate which causes distress.

there are probably many others too, but it’s definitely not vaccines 😅

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:14

I’m so glad it’s not hidden now. Thanks for the education.

Grumpy12345 · 12/08/2024 23:14

That sounds really hard OP and it’s not fair on you. If the daughter can’t be controlled then she needs to be housed at a residential home or school and not in the community sadly.

sunights · 12/08/2024 23:16

I have worked in social housing for a long time.

And seen it become a dumping ground of last resort for people with complex needs as other support services become more and more diminished.

No magistrate will evict. Not just because of the disability. And not even just because the sounds that affect you fall under the category of household noise which is permissable- especially as case law says there is no requirement for social housing providers to offer sound proofing due to the costs.

But because there is nowhere else in the system for the most vulnerable to go.

Unless there is suplus housing where you live, you won't be rehoused if you are already adequately housed and don't have an occupational therapist assessment showing your home is not fit for your needs.

And this same rehousing criteria aapplies to your neighbours.

If you have the means, apply for a housing swap - or if not, find other coping mechanisms until the girl is older and maybe calmer.

And although things may feel hard, try to appreciate your situation is likely to have a better outlook than that of the girl or her mum.

starray · 12/08/2024 23:16

Your poor neighbour. Sounds like she is doing everything she can as it is - leaving the house and walking the streets at midnight so that YOU won't be disturbed. And then the added stress of having you complain about her.

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 12/08/2024 23:17

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:02

Not wanting to derail the thread but as there’s a lot of name calling now it seems as good a time as any. Is there anybody as old as me on here that can answer a question? In the 70s there seemed to be a lot less children with this as a problem does anyone on here know why it seems to be such a bigger problem now?

They were institutionalised and less visible. I know this, because they're now vulnerable adults in placements and nursing homes across the country.

Sweetteaplease · 12/08/2024 23:17

I feel for the mother, but it's not fair on you. I would keep complaining, failing that move (assuming you don't own the property)

LlamaNoDrama · 12/08/2024 23:18

MuddlingMackem · 12/08/2024 21:15

I agree with @ChiCharlie, it's not appropriate housing for the girl's disability. Maybe the mother would rather be somewhere better suited, and rather than having a go at them OP you could provide supporting evidence for them to be housed somewhere suitable. She may appreciate your support on this rather than your frustration.

This

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 12/08/2024 23:20

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:11

That is possibly the worst answer I could have got to that question but I kind of had a feeling that something like that was coming. Thank you for the education, sometimes you need to ask the question even though you know you’re not going to like the answer.

I'm actually glad you asked because it's so far out of public knowledge now a lot of people genuinely won't know what it was like, and I can totally understand the perception of there being more autism around for lots of people but it's that there's more understanding and thankfully more tolerance for it. I wouldn't say we're at acceptance level just yet and we're certainly not at accomodation level as a society, but people forget we've come a long way in understanding autism, and the pps advocating for secluded living away from society and medicating should pause for a moment and think about the horrors that happened to subdue these poor people who had higher levels of support needs that weren't accomodated.

My lovely neighbour over the road spent all last summer fitting me some new fence posts with his son who is in his 50s, so he must be in his 70s to 80s, and I thought it was always just the two of them but it turns out he had a daughter that was very likely autistic, lots of support needs, and when my mum used to go over and ask if his son wanted to play out they were never allowed to mention the daughter. It was as though she never existed. She wasn't allowed to see the light of day. She'd died from aggressively stimming one day and the coroners actually told the family that they'd wait till it was quieter to transport the body. None of them cried, they went back to business as usual, and again nobody would talk about her. My mum was a 70s child, and it's really sad because it's not an uncommon tale.

Autistic children were seen as shameful because it made parenting look bad. There weren't many cycle breaking parents of autistic children back then, and there was a lot of focus on modifying their behaviour to be more neurotypical than understanding and celebrating the differences of being neurodivergent.

TheHateIsNotGood · 12/08/2024 23:20

As you refer to a 'they' to complain to I'm going to assume you've both got the same LL, and quite probably an LHA LL.

I'd be pushing for your neighbour to be rehomed to a property where the effects of their autistic child's meltdowns don't affect other tenants so much.

NotaCoolMum · 12/08/2024 23:21

God I hope they rehouse you and let the neighbours stay in their home. I understand it’s hard to hear through the walls but Do you not think as awful as it sounds to you that it’s a thousand times more difficult for the poor mother? Do you have ANY knowledge of Autism? Please educate yourself and buy some earplugs.

BlackFriYay · 12/08/2024 23:22

@Ihopeithinkiknow not to derail the thread and I hope you don't mind, I just wanted to say that I'm truly sorry for your loss.

My heart sank when I read your post shortly after going in to check on my sleeping DS (who is little and just like you said of your boy, a bloody nightmare at times)

Yet, I don't know how I would cope with losing him. You must have been through utter hell.

I've been struggling today as his behaviour is off the charts challenging due to him being off school. I've had to take more than one 'time out' today to refrain from raising my voice and shouting - it's been hard.

After reading your post I just want to go in and hold him so tightly 😔

My very best wishes to you x

Mummysaf · 12/08/2024 23:29

I hope she gets rehoused in a nice big house with a lovely garden
and you are still the same horrible person

Roosnoodles · 12/08/2024 23:30

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 12/08/2024 23:20

I'm actually glad you asked because it's so far out of public knowledge now a lot of people genuinely won't know what it was like, and I can totally understand the perception of there being more autism around for lots of people but it's that there's more understanding and thankfully more tolerance for it. I wouldn't say we're at acceptance level just yet and we're certainly not at accomodation level as a society, but people forget we've come a long way in understanding autism, and the pps advocating for secluded living away from society and medicating should pause for a moment and think about the horrors that happened to subdue these poor people who had higher levels of support needs that weren't accomodated.

My lovely neighbour over the road spent all last summer fitting me some new fence posts with his son who is in his 50s, so he must be in his 70s to 80s, and I thought it was always just the two of them but it turns out he had a daughter that was very likely autistic, lots of support needs, and when my mum used to go over and ask if his son wanted to play out they were never allowed to mention the daughter. It was as though she never existed. She wasn't allowed to see the light of day. She'd died from aggressively stimming one day and the coroners actually told the family that they'd wait till it was quieter to transport the body. None of them cried, they went back to business as usual, and again nobody would talk about her. My mum was a 70s child, and it's really sad because it's not an uncommon tale.

Autistic children were seen as shameful because it made parenting look bad. There weren't many cycle breaking parents of autistic children back then, and there was a lot of focus on modifying their behaviour to be more neurotypical than understanding and celebrating the differences of being neurodivergent.

It looks like I have a lot of reading to do. It wasn’t a nice time in the 70s so much was hidden away. Thank you all the people that responded. It looks like I have some reading to do. I do think we should understand the past to make sure the future is better.

GlomOfNit · 12/08/2024 23:30

Wow.

I know it's a PITA actually, because that's MY child you're complaining about (my son, in fact). Move, it'll be far easier for you to move away since your routine won't be disrupted, you can cope with less familiar surroundings and the upheaval won't be as cataclysmic as it would be for that poor family.

Please do understand that we do everything we can to make it easier for our challenging children and those who live near them. Sometimes, very little helps. Think of the parents, imagine having to cope with that noise and upset and disruption, all.the.time.

Frazzled83 · 12/08/2024 23:32

EveSix · 12/08/2024 22:30

I'm a bit teary at some of the responses here, being so understanding of the OP's neighbour and the level of stress she is likely under, trying to manage her daughter's meltdowns. It's such a relief to know that there are people who get it, and who see the crazy lengths which parents of children with needs like the OP's neighbour's daughter will go to to keep the peace and regulate their DC. To many of us, it's just the water in which we swim, day in and day out, relentlessly ‐frequently judged, ducking and diving and jumping through all manner of hoops just to put one foot in front of the other with our DC. Exhausting.
And as a PP said, it can be simultaneously true that it is also really exhausting for the OP, and that the situation is increasingly untenable.
I very much hope you manage to reach a mutually workable solution.

Oh we see you and you are phenomenal. I wish the system supported you better. I’m a tiny cog in the wheel of support services and the situation is dire. I’m sorry 😔

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 12/08/2024 23:38

Monday 29 January 2024

A year ago today, a girl – then aged 12 – with severe emotional and behavioural difficulties was put into a locked hospital room under a court order for her own protection. For the past 12 months, most human contact has been through a hatch in the door of her room.

“Becky” is a victim of a UK-wide scarcity of regulated secure accommodation for children.

Just 128 welfare beds in 13 secure children’s homes in England are available to local authorities, which hold the statutory duty to care for and protect children who require this type of specialist therapeutic care.
A severe shortfall in supply means that family judges are regularly told that between 30 and 70-plus children in urgent need are chasing one or two places.

Many end up placed with unregulated private providers costing thousands of pounds per week, or, as in Becky’s case, find that no one is willing to take them.
For highly vulnerable and traumatised children who pose a risk to themselves and others, a placement in a secure therapeutic setting is their best – sometimes only – chance of healing and reintegration into society.
Tortoise has been following Becky’s plight since she was deprived of her liberty last January.

In a hearing last week, her court-appointed guardian told the country’s most senior family judge that she was “very worried” that the girl had been “warehoused” over the last year.
The girl’s incarceration, which began when she was aged 12, has, the guardian said, “danced on the boundary” of breaching her human right not to be arbitrarily detained.
Becky has attempted suicide on a number of occasions while locked away.
The seriousness of the failure to provide her with safe and therapeutic care was underscored last October when the case was transferred to Sir Andrew McFarlane, the president of the family division of the high court.
In a statement submitted last week, Becky’s guardian said the child’s experience over the past 12 months had been “appalling”. She continued: “Her every waking moment and interaction has been watched; her physical health and fitness has declined; her education, for a girl of some promise, has stuttered.”
In multiple hearings over the past 12 months, every state agency involved in Becky’s care has agreed that being locked up alone in a bare room is actively causing her harm. But: despite the risks to Becky’s life, no regulated secure children’s home has been willing to take her, and nor has any unregistered provider.
One private children’s home, Olive Tree Residential Childcare, initially agreed to provide a bespoke placement for Becky, but pulled out with a few days’ notice.

The judge described that decision as “a disaster”; on hearing the news Becky became distraught and seriously self-harmed.
Becky’s mother has repeatedly urged that her child should be allowed home with specialist staff on hand – but the family home is not believed to be suitable for the necessary support staff on site.

Since the autumn, Becky has been permitted very occasional home visits: her first, in September, caused Becky to “cry with happiness”, her mother said.
“She lay on her bed looking at her things, had her first bath in nine months… We made chicken dinner, listened to music, had a dance and watched War Horse together. We got back on transport and Becky walked into the [hospital] without any issues,” she said.

Further brief visits home have, according to Becky’s mother, gone well. She says Becky has had five social workers since 2022, with staff sickness meaning no social worker was allocated to her case for several months. Her current social worker only has Becky on her caseload due to the complexity of her case.

What’s more. After 51 weeks of searching for secure accommodation, Staffordshire council told the court last week that they now intend to create a bespoke placement of their own.
This will involve renting several properties exclusively for Becky and her family to live in, with five-to-one staffing on-site. At the same time, the council is renting and adapting a second fall-back property in case problems arise with the first.

The next hearing is on 16 February. If Becky has not moved by then, she will have been locked away from her family and society for 383 days, and counting.

Olive Tree Residential is a company set up in May 2021 and owned by Skippers Haulage, a trucking and aggregates business based on a farm in Staffordshire. One of Olive Tree’s company directors, Zia Zamir, says he was summarily removed as a director on 4 July 2023 for reasons he does not understand. Becky’s placement was cancelled by Olive Tree in a letter dated 11 July. Mr Zamir says “the placement should never have been pulled.”

A check on Companies House confirms that Olive Tree Residential Childcare still exists. Tortoise Media visited Skippers Haulage to ask for an interview but owner Ronald Skipper was unwilling to speak on the record for “legal reasons”.
Last week, Skipper’s wife told Tortoise that the company was no longer trading and all monies received from Staffordshire council for Becky’s placement have been repaid. Meanwhile, in the midst of suing Skippers Haulage in a dispute about his dismissal as director, Zia Zamir has set up another residential care company, Bayleaf Care Ltd, which intends to provide placements for children, its website says, “who have experienced severe trauma”.

Bayleaf Care is currently going through the registration process with Ofsted.

Children locked away: Britain's modern bedlam - Tortoise

A new Tortoise investigation into how the country’s most distressed and vulnerable children are being abandoned by the state.

https://www.tortoisemedia.com/audio/children-locked-away-britains-modern-bedlam/

Youcantellalotofthingsabouttheflowers · 12/08/2024 23:38

Everyone deserves peace in their own home.yes it must be hell for the mother but to tell someone to put up and shut up while their own mental health is going down the Swanny because of a child who is not theirs is ridiculous. You were right to complain OP and I hope either one of you gets rehoused somewhere more suitable.