Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

[flowermo]

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

What are you implying? Are you trying to compare something as nebulous as a parenting style to something real, discrete and clearly measurable like biological sex?! Because that is bonkers.

There is no one clear measurable definition of Gentle Parenting. The majority of parents who claim to use it, in my observation and in that of many others, are permissive. It is used synonymously, by many, with permissivity.

This is absolutely nothing to do with changing the meaning of clearly definable biological terms and I think it is silly and unproductive to make light of that issue by comparing it to something like this.

Punishment and shouting is not gentle parenting. I mean everyone shouts sometimes but it shouldn't be a regular thing.
Gentle parenting is respectful with firm boundaries and expectations. I think it's fine if you have just one child but when you have 2 of a similar age it's more difficult to do it as it requires more parental effort and that is always possible if both kids are acting out at once.

But in general, threats and punishments don't work so you are just making life harder by removing treats etc.

Or not so long ago, when he ate an entire share bag of skittles when I told him not to eat them all. He then promptly puked the Skittles down the loo,
...
But he got little sympathy for feeling a bit green, made to clean the sick off the toilet seat

Wow. If this is Gentle Parenting, I dread to think what is Cruel Parenting. Horrific

The example I quoted above backs my theory that many Gentle Parents try to give their children way too much responsibility over their own well being and that of others, at too young an age.

It is not your child's responsibility to prevent him from poisoning himself. It's yours, the parent's. Letting a child poison himself and then shrug, crowing "natural consequences!" isn't being Gentle, it is in fact, Neglect.

Gentle parenting does work but it's often misinterpreted as permissive parenting.

The kids those teachers are describing in school are the ones who are given lots of overwhelming choices at home, unclear boundaries, inconsistent sanctions, and believe that adults are all their to entertain them and be their friends. They're the ones who are given lots of amazing experiences and stuff, so that they grow up expecting school to be one long theme park ride and are devastated that they have to encounter tasks that can be boring and without much immediate reward.

Obviously not all kids and I'm not judging anyone, but that's how I see it anyway.

Yes, I was implying that, although I admit it's not the smartest comparison. Maybe you're right and "gentle parenting" is not a set of objective standards of parenting, I don't know because I don't "practice" any kind of style. What I see is a lot of people deliberately conflating neglect and laziness to gentleness, and to me that's not correct.

Absolutely not cruel parenting.

He made a choice. He discovered it was a poor choice and encountered consequences.

What did you think should have happened? Rolled up a camping chair and a blanket so that he could watch his mummy clear up all his sick?

First post on this thread - my kids have ASD so I gentle parent.

What happens when they're 16 and no-one gives a shit if they had ASD? Employers, friends, the real world? They won't accept any excuses at all.

No one gives you a free pass in life, never.

There are so many parents that are doing their kids a huge disservice by not teaching them how to function in the real world, it's astounding.

" firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc."

This isn't gentle parenting. This is 'normal' middle ground parenting.

Gentle parents let their kids get away with all sorts. Hitting at softplay should be met with a stern word and consequence not 'how did that make little billy feel? Let's have a cuddle! Would you like an ice cream!' It drives me nuts! That's what teachers mean when it's doing kids no favours. It's a lack of discipline.

Yeah, that's not gentle parenting. That's an absence of parenting.

Parenting does not mean letting children do what they want and then just dealing with the consequences of that. That's not what 'natural consequences' means - although the natural consequence of eating too many skittles is that you will be sick, parenting dictates that you get involved and not let it happen in the first place.

In fact, this is so bad that I'm not entirely sure it's not a facetious post!

I dread to think what is Cruel Parenting. Horrific

^

Er, teaching accountability?? You eat too many Skittles, vomit, then yes, you just clean up after yourself?? Or your mummy will do it for you?!?!

If you think that's cruel you have no idea what cruelty is.

I think she should have prevented a scenario that would predictably result in actual bodily harm for her child.

Just like we prevent young children from burning themselves or drinking alcohol.

Not preventing actual bodily harm from occurring to your young child is literally the definition of neglect, which is a form of child abuse.

Knowingly allowing your young child to eat so many sweets that they literally vomit is harmful to their body.

It is cruel and confusing to a child when their parent won't even prevent them from harming themselves.

I would have removed the sweets. If this makes me Cruel, but allowing them to poison themselves is Gentle, then I'd rather be Cruel any day.

I'm a firm believer children need boundaries to feel safe, imagine how limitless a world might feel to a child without them. In a family I think children want and need leaders so they look to their parents to see if they're calm, in charge, responsible, consistent etc

As a rule of thumb we do authoritarian parenting but it definitely needs consistency. Dr Becky gives great advice on this, setting a boundaries after asking about how it isn't something you say it's something you do. So setting reasonable expectations e.g. after this programme or after 2 programmes the tv is off and then following through and doing what you say. Also at pre school age and younger it's not always appropriate to explain everything fully, a brief explanation or even a simple No in a firm voice without shouting and then redirecting to a safe alternative in a positive way is enough.

I'm gentler than my own parents were, although shouty mum definitely appears more than I'd like (especially ATM when I'm pregnant and lacking in mental and physical capacity). I try and validate feelings, my daughter has a calm down box in her room which she uses when she wants to be left alone and then we rebuild and connect after. Fundamentally I want to treat my daughter with respect and in turn expect respect back, as I would from all our family members.

I think the issue with gentle parenting getting a bad.wrap is parents that don't understand it or use it effectively, or who use it as an excuse to not lay any groundwork/rules etc. I saw an insta reel the other day and it was about how a ladies f one year old wanted to stand on the counter pushing microwave buttons for ten minutes that' was fine with her as they had nowhere to go or anything to do but I'd feel like that's not really something you want a child doing..The baby will only get bigger and can climb on surfaces themselves, other people might not want a child doing the same at their houses etc. I didn't understand why you wouldn't redirect them to an activity which gives a similar effect like button pressing but that's suitable for them. A microwave is ultimately not a toy.

"I know that you are really sad leaving the park, it's hard to stop something that you are enjoying. We need to leave to collect X from school. I look forward playing with you at the park tomorrow".

See my issue here is the antisocial behaviour isn't the wanting to stay in the park (the boundary you then hold). Its the overreaction/tantrum in response to not getting what they want. You haven't imposed a consequence for that. You've affirmed that yes they should feel aggrieved at not getting their way (they shouldn't).

I would:

• focus on the positive and teach them to appreciate what they had, not the thing they are disappointed they aren't getting: "yes, we have had a great time at the park today, aren't you a lucky boy"
• then I would give some strategies for calming down and set a time frame for them to stop fussing, explaining its not a big thing:

"Now DS its not a big thing. Take a deep breath, lets do ten big breaths and count together then time to stop crying. No one's hurt, no ones died, the park is still here for next time".

• if they didn't try to calm down, I'd impose a consequence for not trying.

"No DS, we won't be getting an ice lolly on the way, because you've made too much fuss."

You should have given him an appropriate amount in the first place. One that was unlikely to make him sick. That's what the 'parenting' element refers to.

Then the rest could be saved for another day.

The natural consequence of eating too many Should have been that he didn't have any left for eg tomorrow. Not that he had to throw up.and then clean it up himself!

It's No True Scotsman again.

Someone comes along and points out a terrible example of Gentle Parenting (tbf this example is unusual in that it's proudly told by the Gentle Parent herself/himself!).
We point out it's terrible.
Everyone insists it's not Truly gentle parenting.

I also think a lot of kids have huge decision fatigue from being given too many choices and too much control.

Its reassuring and secure knowing grown ups are in charge making the decisions. Childrens need that.

It's because the focus and the consequence are wrong.

Example - if a child is allowed to self regulate sweet consumption, the child should be given an appropriate portion size to begin with.

Gentle parenting doesn't mean a child can do whatever they want whenever they want and just have to deal with the consequences.

Parents still need to have boundaries and put them in place. It's still 'parenting'.

Like I said, the consequence of eating more than today's share of sweets should be that there aren't enough sweets for tomorrow. Not that the child is able to eat so many they are sick and are then forced to clean up the sick.

The mistake a lot of parents make is trying to avoid the crying and tantrums that are normal when pre school children get upset, by bribing and distracting them or just giving in all the time.

Parenting young children does result in crying, it's a normal response for their age and shouldn't be over indulged or avoided.

I think it's a particular issue for children who are in full time childcare and parents only see their children 2 days a week. They really want to give their child a happy time during those precious few hours so they do all they can to appease them. This then ends in more upset as the child is desperately wanting their parent to enforce boundaries so gets more extreme with behaviour. Then the parents get more and more stressed as their efforts fail until eventually they lose their rag and shout or punish without a clear aim

People who are with their children most of the time tend to put up with much less messing about. They aren't scared to enforce the rules as life would be totally unbearable if they didn't

No judgement it's just an observation, I appreciate long hours in childcare is unavoidable for many

I can only go by what I have observed in my own grandchildren whose mother decided she was going to 'gentle parent'. They are feral! Their emotions are out of control and they have no emotional boundaries - I cannot bear to see how chaotic are their little brains and how utterly distraught they are allowed to become. They do things totally in their own time and even in urgent situations just will not cooperate. They have no manners. Because they've been allowed to graze all day instead of eating three square meals, their little teeth are already rotting through having a mouth constantly filled with food. I love the bones of them, but cannot have them to look after as they are just so exhausting. I can see them having real mental health issues when released into the big bad world where, actually, sometimes you do have to do as you are told, you do have to obey laws and the 'norms' of society.

It seems a bit harsh to me. I’d not let him eat so much in the first place. We had a vomiting situation when I wasn’t fully aware my toddler had eaten too much chocolate and I was still sympathetic when he vomited - the vomiting was enough punishment.

What happened there was just no parenting - no boundaries then no sympathy or affection.

I do very gentle parenting. I'm good at being a loving and attentive parent but not so good at being strict or telling them off. This isn't a conscious decision, it's just how I am! I've been told I'm too soft. Having said that, I do have rules and boundaries.
My children are 13 and 11 and are very well behaved. They are polite, always says please and thank you. They are very rarely naughty. My DD's room is a mess but apart from that I can't think of any times she's behaved badly. My son is quite highly strung so can be difficult (in the sense he's very emotional) but never actually naughty. If we tell him to do something or not do something, he does what we say. Everyone comments on how well behaved they are. They work hard at school too.
I do have a friend who's very authoritarian. She shouts a lot, is strict and I have once seen her hit her son. Both her children are pretty naughty. They answer back, they defy her.
Obviously these are only two examples. I'm sure some kids with gentle parents are little monsters and some kids with strict parents are angels.
I do feel my kids are reasonable, calm and not defiant because we raise them in a very reasonable way. We always discuss things with them and listen to them rather than barking out orders.

Actually, the biggest problem with all ppf these 'talking' responses is that they fail ro consider one very important thing.

When someone is in an a heightened emotional state, the emotion part of their brain takes over and the logic, common sense and memory parts shut down.

It doesn't really matter what you're telling them to focus on, think about, remember or what strategies you're trying to show them at that time, their brain can't hear you.

It's fine to acknowledge and match their energy - I know you're really angry/upset, but we need to go etc but there's absolutely no point in all the talking until they're no longer emotional.

It's not only children who act like that but adults too.

Let's face it, all parents are kind of getting it wrong most of the time. Not that wrong, but a bit wrong.

Parenting is hard.

Half the time I'm either too tired, sick, or annoyed with someone to remember what I'm even supposed to be doing, never mind actually do it properly.

For me, gentle parenting is a kind of "cheat sheet" which I'm hoping leads to the least worst outcome.

As such, it involves quite a bit of staying-up-too-late-talking with DP, asking ourselves "is this actually working?"

Again, that's not gentle parenting.

That's an absence of parenting labeled as gentle.