Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

[flowermo]

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

Gentle parenting does work.
Parents who say they gentle parent but basically just can't be arsed doesn't work.

Gentle parenting is hard work. Rather than just yelling 'don't do that! Because I said so! Shut up!' It's taking time to get to their level and ask WHY they want to do it. Explaining why we don't do it. It's setting boundaries and explaining why they're set, it's about acknowledging their feelings and not just discarding them. For example if yojr child is scared by a bee instead of 'It won't hurt you stop it' it's more 'the buzzing can be scary, he's looking for a flower to land on. Let's sit and watch for a minute and see what he does. Can you make a buzzing sound like a bee' it's all about time but a lot of people use the term Gentle when they mean permissive

I honestly think that what teachers are describing sounds more like neglectful than gentle parenting.
Children "misbehaving" (what do we consider misbeheaviour changes also) is nothing new.

I often cringe when I see labeling in general, although I recognise my aspirations as a parent in your description of gentle parenting. But we are only human, and shouting (specially if we've been shouted at) is part of the experience!
I believe that a lot gets misinterpreted: technical concepts (like attachement) are so diluted that they almost loose their original meaning. Personally, I always go to the sources (Bowlby, Piaget, Winicott, Montessori, Mason... to name a few that interest me).
In general, considering children people in their own right (not mum's little project, or miniature adults), and trying to be attuned to their needs, is what seems to be best for them, regarding of the individual personality of the parent. And, at the base of all that, of course, unconditional love.
We parents need to be brave to face our own upbringings too, first of all.
I love Winicott's concept of the good enough mother, and Gordon Neufeld's idea that children must not work for our love, but rest in it.

All of that is part of gentle parenting

Firstly, I don’t think that there is a single style of parenting that is the best. Different children and different parents all interact differently.

One of the things I realised in 10 years of (second career) teaching is there were lots of ‘styles’ successful teachers adopted. When I mentored ECTs and they observed me, they saw that my style ‘worked’ (I like to think I was quite good at it!) but when they tried to imitate me, it generally didn’t work. I always told them they had to play to their own strengths and find out what worked for them whilst being true to their own personalities. I think that this is true of parenting as well.

I do, however, think parents need to be both consistent and in charge. Children (and teens) need to feel that they are listened to, but also need clear boundaries and consequences. All good schools have these and they work.

So gentle parenting can work with some parents and some children, but definitely doesn’t for others. Ultimately, if a child regularly misbehaves and there are no consequences, you are failing in your parenting and need a plan B.

(And, if you give any credence to attachment theory, all of the important parenting is in the first years or even months of childhood).

It depends what the behaviour is. Natural consequences are a go to. If you break your toy its not replaced, if you draw on the wall pens are put away. If you don't tidy your toys you won't have time for stories.
If it was something major like my child hit another, they'd be removed from the situation and spoken to about why we don't hit and how we could express that instead and because they hit their consequences would be not having something.

Gentle parenting is a load of bollocks. Authoritarian parenting will traumatise your kids but authoritative parenting - firm boundaries, clear expectations, fair and reasonable punishments, along with a lot of love and care and attention in general - will help your children grow up into reasonable people.

Gentle parenting is authoritative.

@Thepartnersdesk "Perhaps it's not gentle parenting but this trend of overwhelming small children with choices doesn't really seem positive. Just drags things out forever."

Exactly.

I see that as "parentification" of a child, and to me that's neglectful.

(I would probably have let them eat the gross cucumber, though 😂)

@DaisyFloop ,

These sound way too gentle and avoiding natural consequences, rather than allowing them to happen.

Natural consequence for drawing on wall is either redecorating it or paying for someone else to do so (so no pocket money for a long time).

If you hit another child, natural consequence isn’t having a gentle chat but misjudging the situation and the other child giving you a very hard thump back.

Obviously depends on age of child, which you didn’t mention, but children aren’t stupid and, if you actually chat to them, they make decisions based on risk assessment (except when they truly lose it). So, they may decide the fun of drawing on a wall is worth losing pens for a bit or teaching another child a good lesson is worth being removed and a parental chat and maybe losing ‘something’.

Fear of serious consequences if you behave badly is not the same as fearing the parent. Parents should be authority figures. I don’t fear the police or jail as I don’t break the law (much) but I know if I did, I would be very fearful of the consequences.

I'm in the middle but more towards traditional parenting. I will shout if they aren't listening, pull them up on rude behaviour and if they really cross the line then yes they'll get a smacked backside.

I have friends who gentle parent and their kids without exception are awful. They are rude, selfish, entitled, interrupt constantly, call their parents names, hit, bite, throw tantrums when they don't get their way, even at 10 tears old. They've never been taught that tantrums arent acceptable so just keep having them.

One's son calls her a useless cunt and punches walls next to her head! He's 14! She keeps trying to take his hands and tell him that it's OK to be angry but it's still no then he pulls away and puts a dent in the wall and screams abuse in her face. He was never disciplined when he was young and now she physically can't control him.

My kids are generally well behaved, bit of attitude occasionally but easily corrected with a firm word about respect. They aren't afraid of me but do have a healthy respect for the fact that I won't be spoken to like crap and rude people don't get favours from me. Bit gobby yesterday want money today? Too bad. Its worked. They're happy, confident kids, come to me with their problems, I'll let them vent but they know where the line is.

DD is a teen and a absolute dream to parent, she is an only and autistic and loves rules those probably factor into it. However I did alot of research into child development etc, set out clear boundaries, allowed her to experience risky activities safely to build resilience and communicate with her the way I expected to be communicated with. Becoming a parent is the most important job any of us that choose to have children will ever do and going into it blind with no 'training' or thought behind it seems daft to me.

I strongly believe that children shouldn't be shouted, sworn at or intimidated by parents nor should parents behave towards their child in a way they would not allow a teacher or care giver to behave.

I do believe in natural consequences and not being permissive. I believe in allowing children to cry, feel angry and frustrated and to deal with those emotions in a positive manner.

However having worked with secondary school children in a disadvantaged area (all children ho wouldhave had good access to surestart centres in our area too) which may be relevant, the most poorly behaved were unsuprisingly from chaotic and often disrespectful families often where MH and other challenges were rife and generally a traumatic environment. The second worst behaved were those with ineffectual and permissive parents that never allowed their children to experience consequences or negative emotions,never held them accountable for their actions and just allowed them to do what they want because they are a 'gentle' parent - but aren't because they only did half the work. The children brought up in respectful households, with clear boundaries and age and ability appropriate expectations of behaviour and academic progress were the best behaved.

Daisy Goodwin wrote a very interesting book called Bringing Up baby, andits a review of parenting trends through the ages and the social economic and political factors influencing them at the time.

This is spot on, I think.

Completely agree.
Im a teacher. A few examples from the last year or two (all children involved between 3-5)
• child wearing too small shoes because she wanted to and negotiated with Mum why she should
• child with no coat on an unpredictable day, parent said they didn’t want to wear one and seemed baffled why they couldn’t stay in if they didn’t want to go out, even though the rest of us did
• lunchboxes full of chocolate, crisps (as in more than one of each) then complaining to us child didn’t eat their one piece of fruit and ate the uhealthy food instead
• child doesn’t like drawing so don’t see why they need to try at school
• child doesn’t like potty training so haven’t tried
• child doesn’t want to wear PE kit so doesn’t
• met my new class and parents, one child didn’t want to leave so parent let them play until they were ready (seemed shocked when I politely but firmly said they needed to leave as it was the end of the visit)
The list goes on.

I have a friend who claims she does gentle parenting- it very much sounds and looks like she just leaves her to her own devices and does as she wants- but my friend says that it's not for her to demand things of her child and she will naturally learn the consequences of her actions -
E.g breaking toys- she will learn it makes her unhappy so she will stop doing it.
Being unkind- she will learn when other kids don't want to play with her

In reality, her poor child has not been taught how to play nicely, how to take turns, how to play nicely with other kids toys etc etc
She struggles with friendship groups in school and my friend can't seem to fathom out why 🫣.

We have clear boundaries and expectations and we are consistent with effects of poor behaviour. We have lots of fun and a very loving house, but our DS knows the rules so he can happily play knowing what his options are. School say he's a lovely child and we can take him anywhere - yes he still tries to push those boundaries at times, but we are consistent and he knows the outcome.

I think somewhere in between would be ideal. I never want my child to be frightened of me, or of telling me something. I was battered regularly as a child and humiliated. It left me with a lot of trauma. I was determined never to follow my parents example of shit parenting. But I regularly see out and about useless parenting where kids are allowed to run riot in inappropriate settings.

There’s also a lot of challenging behaviour coming from families where children are in charge. They happily say ‘you have to do this because Mrs X says so’ making us the villain.

Sorry forgot to add - I'm not sure the accurate term for gentle parenting is being executed by my friend, I'm sure there must be more to it.

That's not gentle that's lazy

Teachers think that gentle parenting is hurting kids? And being scared of parents doesn’t? I find it very disturbing. I think what they mean is that they find children inconvenient and don’t know how to reason with them beyond “because I said so”.
Children are no different from adults. They need boundaries but they also need to understand the underlying reasons for these boundaries in order to get on board with them. Children need to have respect for others and they learn it by following their parent’s example. If parents disrespect their children, how will they learn?
My parents were definitely authoritarian. I was scared of my dad because he was inconsistent and violent. I could get smacked for anything and everything without a warning. The boundaries were not explained to me. I was simply punished for doing something that displeased him even if I didn’t know I was doing something wrong. I stopped talking to my father when I was a teenager.
My mother had clear rules and boundaries. She was consistent. But, she would never explain her reasons. And I wanted to know even as a small child.
Now, as an adult, I very much want to know why I am being asked to do something. I am very lucky with my manager at work who always says “I need you to do XYZ, because…” not “here is some new procedure that doesn’t make any sense. Off you go”. Why would I treat my child any differently? At the end of the day, there will come a time when they will stop fearing me and then they will go off doing stupid shit because fReEdOm. I would much rather take time explain why the boundaries are what they are and hope it will serve them well as adults.
Shouting at a child because it takes them 20 minutes to put shoes on seems bizarre to me. I would like to understand why they are struggling with this activity and either resolve the barriers or give them more time to compete it the next time.

I hear you. I feel completely lost too and always feel like I'm getting it wrong. I'm sure that generations before us never spent as much time reading parenting guides and analysing their parenting.

I just keep going and keep reading and keep modifying. There is no 'right way' but there are better ways of course. And as soon as you think you've got something nailed, change is just around the corner... I think the overarching thing is just care. Care enough to want to do the right thing and I'm sure it will pay off. ❤️

I think gentle parenting is just a response to the "traditional parenting" that many of us grew up with, and now recognise as well meaning, but having essentially abusive aspects.

Obviously children have particular needs that adults don't, and aren't capable of making informed decisions.

But we would never think we should let a distressed partner "cry it out" to toughen them up, or tell them to respect our boundaries "because I say so" without wven trying to communicate why you have that boundary, if only because such an approach isn't likely to work.

We all want our kids to become the best adults they can be. We want them to be kind, thoughtful, empathetic, and independent.

We also need to keep them safe, and be able to get along in school etc. We also want to keep ourselves sane and have a bit of a life outside being a parent.

@tiggergoesbounce in the example you gave I don't think DD ever broke a toy but if she did and was upset, I would have labelled the emotion to give her the vocabulary

"Oh no,you are sad because you pulled too hard and barbies head came off and now you can't play with her"

Then I would have asked her for her solution to how we could fix the problem and then we would trial and error reasonable suggestions until it was fixed or guide her to a more appropriate outcome. Even if it means Barbie head is sellotaped on and then talked about what she was trying to do when she pulled too hard and demonstrated more appropriate play.

To me the above is normal parenting and is time consuming with all the chat waffle but you put the time in there and then reduces what you need to do as they grow. It shouldn't become necessary for teachers to have to explain everything as they get older as you should have laid the problem solving skills and personal responsibility assumption foundations down in the early years that they understand why they need to do something.

Other parents might take very different approaches
Tell her to shut up crying, even swear at her for wasting the money now the toy is broken, telling her that's what you get and throw the doll in the bin

A poorly gentle parent would just go and buy a new doll,not teaching problem solving or consequences.

We have always taught our DS, providing you are polite and use your manners, you can always ask an adult why they are asking you to do something if you don't understand why or you feel uncomfortable.

No adult should be offended by an Inquisitive child asking why.

It is also good that kids learn they can question adults - (providing it's not just to be annoying 🤣🤣) it's not healthy for kids to grow up feeling they should always conform with an adults request regardless.

I think it depends on how "gentle" the gentle parenting is.
I would say I gentle parent, but my children know that they will be in trouble for bad behaviour and certain behaviour is unacceptable.

As a general rule of thumb, we:
Don't use food as punishment
Listen to their explanation before getting angry (or try to)
Are consistent (no point punishment for xyz one day then letting them do it the next)
Don't make empty threats
Never use physical punishment
Try not to shout

We're definitely not perfect parents but for the most part, our kids are good kids and we haven't had any complaints from people about them yet knocks vehemently on wood

@Catza ,

‘Teachers think that gentle parenting is hurting kids? And being scared of parents doesn’t? I find it very disturbing.’

I think maybe you should listen to teachers’ perspectives and maybe reflect on them. They know lots of children and have to manage behaviour on a daily basis.

As I explained to all my classes (until they knew me) teachers and pupils owe one another respect but it doesn’t mean the same thing as pupils are children and teachers are adult professionals.

I do agree that adults should explain things to children in an age appropriate way as well as instructing them, and that asking children to do pointless things is counterproductive, but there just isn’t time to explain every little thing and certainly not several times.

So, if I gave a class a starter of problems from something we had studied a few weeks ago, I would just expect them to do it and, if they didn’t, they would get a warning and then a detention in which they had to complete the problems. I wouldn’t feel the need to explain the pedagogy behind the lesson (although I did explain pedagogy from time to time to increase understanding and motivation).

There is a level of trust that children should have in adults which is a part of respect, in the same way an adult feels responsible for helping children solve problems. Mutual but not symmetrical.