Does 'gentle parenting' work ?

[flowermo]

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert at parenting styles.

I know bits and bobs from reading articles, books, talking to other mums/ grandmas and a lot of reading on Mumsnet.

I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about gentle parenting. However let me summarise my understanding- it's about firm boundaries, but doesn't promote shouting and hitting etc and generally using fear to get your kids to behave. It encourages understanding a child's development phases and what can and cannot be expected of them at any particular stage. Helping them understand and validate feelings, negative and positive ones etc.

Another style of parenting, perhaps the authoritarian style or ' traditional ' style that was used a lot in our parents generation, is a lot more shouty. Perhaps even hitting. Children are scolded for having tantrums and punished. Parents rule with fear of shouting / hitting / scolding. Kids are often scared of their parents. I remember growing up in this kind of household, as did all of my friends really.

I would say I use something in between the two styles with my children. But more on the gentler side. I don't hit but sometimes I do shout for example. I try to understand the stage of development they're at and what I can reasonably expect from their behaviour. I try to use consequences like taking toys away or denying them treats they wanted. I don't think my kids are afraid of me. I don't think I'm a particularly good parent. Or that I'm doing things right. They misbehave and I'm often stressed out. They're still small, 2 and 4 and I'm just trying to find my way.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is. I've been speaking to some other mums of slightly older kids who are also teachers. They really think that the gentle parenting approach is hurting kids and kids are out of control more than they were in the past. More authoritarian methods work better apparently and kids should be scared of their parents and should be worried about getting in trouble ( not violence ) at home, if they mess around at school. Teachers are leaving the profession because kids are so badly behaved and parents have no control over their kids.

What do you think about this? Is gentle parenting working ? Is it true that kids are so badly behaved now ? ( doesn't every generation say that about the new generation? ).

One thing I've noticed is that if I discipline my kids in public, by slightly raising my voice, people do stare. I never see any parents doing that nowadays. It was normal to get a telling off if you messed around in public when I was a child.

I'm not trying to be divisive or judge either side of the debate. I don't know what I'm doing or whether it's right. I guess I spend most of my time thinking I should be firmer, then feeling abusive when I do shout at them. I'm also lost. I really don't want to piss anyone off. So please be kind.

That's not gentle parenting, that's permissive parenting as described above.

And yes, the person who you've seen doing that is mad.

I think it depends on the child, and also your definition of gentle parenting. We have always used gentle parenting and my eldest two are now in their teens and are lovely, gentle, kind boys who have never been in trouble or even had a negative comment from a teacher or anyone else. One is heavily into drama and the other just likes to hangout with his group of friends who are also lovely young people.

We were on a long, delayed train journey yesterday and my three sat quietly the whole journey and whispered if they needed to speak. The children opposite us had feet on seats, were extremely loud, rude to their mum, using language inappropriate for children and one refused to use the headphones he had and so was listening to YouTube loudly from a phone. Mum would intermittently tell them off but ultimately didn't make them take their feet off the seats or insist on the use of headphones. She might call this gentle parenting, but it really isn't because she's not actually parenting.

There is loads of research that indicates that both permissive and authoritarian parenting leads to poor outcomes. Obviously being scared of your parents is not right - this is not how I was raised at all, even in the 80’s, I don’t think most kids were scared of their parents. I don’t think gentle parenting is permissive parenting either although they are often mixed up.

I don’t buy into the idea that this generation of parents are doing it all wrong. But if I was to nit pick there are some parents, who aim to gentle parent who meet their kids needs so much that I personally think it ends up causing anxiety in the child. Like an (older) child who won’t go to sleep alone for example - mollycoddling them and sitting beside them each night is letting them know that they have something to be worried about. Encouraging them with empathy and kindness that they can do it alone as there is nothing to be scared off is more effective and ultimately better for them. Smoothing the road and protecting kids from everything doesn’t work.

but who knows, I’m just muddling through like most people. I don’t fully do any parenting style.

I think I probably gentle parent - but unofficially, as I've never read a book on it, and it's not conscious, it's just how it goes.

I do have very firm boundaries and expectations, but I've never had to get properly cross with the children (although I have had a couple of face-offs with them - over things so small that I don't even remember what they were, which given how stubborn they are, I obviously had to win and not back down on in order to maintain my authority!) - I assume there will be more as they progress through teenage-hood (they're tweens).

One of the things I've always prioritised is not having pointless rules, and that they should always (to an age appropriate level) understand the reason for a rule. This means that I won't say 'no' to something unless I can think of a decent reason - eg. 'Can I bake a cake mum' - would generally be yes, unless it's right before we have to go somewhere, or they've already baked a cake yesterday, or some other proper reason - which I would give them, and allow them a reasonable attempt at persuading me - although if I say 'no' again, then I expect it to be obeyed.

What does "gentle parenting" actually mean though? Permissiveness and never saying no? Over-explaining and over-focusing on every emotion that they experience? Or just treating your child fairly?? There's a lot that the term might encompass.

Instead of focusing on the label "gentle parenting", you might find it more helpful to find out more about AUTHORITATIVE (not authoritarian) parenting approaches, i.e. treating your child respectfully and helping them to consider others, but also not taking any shit 😁

Thanks, do you feel better now that you corrected my mistake?

When kids were very little I would step in and stop them from doing things if needed. Redirect.
Physically remove them from the situation.

(They snatch a toy, I remove it and return it to the other child, tell them they need to ask nicely/wait etc and give them a hug if they were upset. They hit another child, I pick them up and move them away, have a word with them, ask them to apologise to other child and/or check if they were ok. That kind of thing. Repeated incidents like that we'd just go home.)

I've always tried to explain clearly, and also connect with them. Listen to their side of things but stay firm.

They know I have high expectations in terms of how we treat other people. If I ever thought they were being unkind to someone I would pull them up on it and I think so far they have enough respect for me that they would take it on board. They're both lovely kids and very concerned if they think someone else is being treated unfairly or unkindly.

I don't really shout at them (though I have done at times).

I don't think we've ever used consequences like removing screen time or grounding.

They're well behaved at school (going into y11 and y9 now) and don't cause us any particular issues at home in terms of anything that would require consequences. I have plenty of friends with teens who have had various issues though, and appreciate in the next few years things could change and we'd have to rethink!

@ChaiTeaOrTaiChi I speak 5 languages, English being my third, mistakes happen.

I am not correcting any mistake...? I never even noticed one? I am clarifying the two terms as they are easily confused. I worried that if said "authoritative", people might assume I was referring to "authoritarian" (=rigid and losing temper etc, which you correctly referred to in your Op)

I want Gentle Parenting to work for me, but I still find that I need to shout on occasion in order for my children (2 and 4) to take me seriously. I also am not perfect and get overwhelmed and wind up yelling.

My eldest is particularly challenging. He is being assessed for ADHD and sometimes I could explain why he shouldn't do something until I'm blue in the face, but he doesn't hear me, if that makes sense. He lacks impulse control and often does things despite being aware of boundaries (which are invariably enforced). While he is often sad about the shouting and wants a cuddle, it is effective about getting his attention and focus, and he adjusts his behaviour accordingly. No amount of "kind hands" or gentle reminders help.

I have a friend who exclusively uses Gentle Parenting with her daughters (4, 2, and newborn). They are immaculately well-behaved, but have much more calm and eager-to-please personalities than my feral boys.

Hit the nail on the head in the first few posts.

The biggest problem right now is the number of people masquerading permissive parenting as gentle parenting. No boundaries, no correcting bad behaviour, just letting their children run cause chaos. Doesn't make a difference why they do this, its shit parenting all round.

FWIW I don't follow any particular type of parenting but I can say with certainty the way I deal with one of my children doesn't work for the other so I act according to their needs.

Again, I didn't see any mistake... And I'd never correct anyone like that! I'd be a pretty crap authoritative parent if I did! Apologies for any confusion

I think with the current trend of labelling parenting styles we'll find out which have worked in 10-15 years.
I also think comparison is the thief of joy.
I was a single parent to 4 for most of my parenting years. 3 boys and 1 girl. I avoided the crappy e numbers (in the 80s and 90s) and even tho we were very very poor, fed them without too much crap. I made sure they understood that life has rules, and they grew up respectfully. They are all wonderful people, and we are close.
My (troubled) Mum said that it's 50% instinct and 50% common sense. I like to think that she was correct.

@ChaiTeaOrTaiChi sure, sorry I misunderstood what you meant, but I understand now.

Authoritarian vs authoritative ! Got it !

To be fair, I could have written it out differently without shouty letters.

I'm not sure what my/our patenting style is. We have clear rules, boundaries, and expectations. We do bear in mind where they are developmentally as well and use age appropriate language and discussion when needed and the same with discipline.

We don't shout unless they are likely to injure, endanger or massively fuck up something or themselves and their attention or the need to stop is immediate.

We also use accountability for them and ourselves, actions have consequences, and we do discuss these. Not at length but simple and clear explanation on why it's a no.

We are accountable as parents as well and always try to keep that in mind. For example if the 9yo starts to lose his shit seemingly over nothing or easily fusterated... I ask myself why? First, rather than jumping down his throat. It's usually because he's tired, done too much throughout the day, or is hungry, and I've missed those cues throughout the day. And, that's on me as a parent. I still let him know if his behaviour is unacceptable and address whatever needs, whether it's a snack or an earlier bedtime. There's also hormones at play starting around his age.

We teach our children to be kind, to respect themselves and others, especially someone in authority. We have family values and discuss those and always (try) to lead by example.

We're definitely not perfect and can snap when things are feeling frazzled with a baby and an older child.

So far, we have a well-adjusted kid who is polite, kind, and courteous. He's super intelligent and is able to be independent and also join into all family and other group activity. Excellent school reports, and every teacher or coach has always commented on what a joy he is to teach. That he is good role model and shows good values.

Who knows what the second kid will be like? It's too early to say. The first could just be dumb luck.

I don't think parenting is a one size fits all. Each person and family will have their own style that works for them. I do, however, think that emphasis on respect and authority are not taught as much at home or in school like it would have been done when we were younger. Both H and I are from large ish families and had authoritarian parents. Respect and fear were normal.

I would say the eldest is fearful of our disappointment but not anger. Based on things, that have popped up recently and he said he would rather we were angry at him than disappointed. Personally, I think that's alright and we'll see how thay goes in the next few years.

Its hard to get a grip on what it actually is, as any criticism is immediately met with 'thats not gentle parenting, that's permissive parenting' This suggests to me that at best GP is merely coining a phrase for a common sense, kind but firm, non abusive style that most would advocate for long before it was monetised through book sales. At worst, it is a cause of confusion leading to poor boundaries and children who lack empathy, believing their rights and feelings should be centred at all times.

I agree that communication is important, but it drives me mad when I see parents talking to misbehaving children far too much and trying to reason and negotiate with a toddler whose powers of reasoning and understanding are simply not developed enough yet. Young children need simple, clear, calm instructions about what is and is not acceptable. Some parents talk on and on, in a hideously calm, reasonable voice, striving for agreement, and their child clearly just tunes out.

By all means let them feel they have some choice and agency but it should be along the lines of "Do you want to put on the blue socks or the red socks today?" rather than "Do you want to put some socks on?" Adults are the ones in charge (or should be).

Teachers get fed up because when there is a problem too many parents choose to believe their children's version of events rather than the teacher's even when there is indisputable evidence that the child is not telling the truth. They say things like "My child never lies" or "No, I can tell when my child is lying".

One true example: a child brought a toy to school. The toy vanished from the child’s bag and several other children said they had seen Child A, who had admired the toy and had a record of taking and keeping other children's property (something her parents would never believe was deliberate) near that bag. Child A was adamant she knew nothing about it, despite being given opportunities to own up easily ("Perhaps you just wanted to look at it again and then put it back in your own bag by mistake?") Child A complained to her mother after school. The mother, a proponent of "gentle parenting", came in full of indignation. Her child never told lies, how dare we, etc. The mother finally agreed to our request for her to look in her child's bag. The toy was there. We left the two of them alone to talk about it.

When we returned, the narrative had changed: the child had "obviously" taken it because she wanted to give it to someone else. Couldn't we see that she was an unhappy child who was trying to buy friendship? It was all the school's fault! (The parents had actually previously refused to give consent for the child to be included in a "nurture group".)

Obviously those parents had poor parenting skills quite apart from their "gentle parenting" beliefs, but they just could not bring themselves to tell their children clearly and firmly that some behaviour was just plain wrong and would not be defended.

IMO the issue with gentle parenting arises when it is half assed. I.e. the parents speak gently, but don’t have any expectations or boundaries to go with it, and don’t actually do anything.

so if little Johnny is throwing rocks he merely gets a “oh Johnny, don’t throw rocks” and then both parent and Johnny continue what they are doing.

i think it 100% depends on the child

youngest I think we did gentle parenting worked well

oldest needs assertiveness firm boundaries and clear instruction and absolutely thrives off that

I always followed the evidence on this as best as I could, and was careful to be an authoritative parent. I thought my My dad was authoritarian (actually he was a tyrant. ) and my mum permissive (actually she was checked out/absent) so I thought I had seen the damage that both of those parenting styles could do.

I read countless studies because of my own dysfunctional upbringing, my son was a really well behaved kid and I took credit for that

Roll on adolescence and it stopped working quite abruptly, our relationship fell apart over time and things became utterly intolerable at home.I tried to use the authoritative strategies I had and it just made everything worse. Eventually he was diagnosed with asd and adhd , anxiety and other health issues and I finally discovered low demand parenting, which is a very particular and counterintuitive way of interacting with children who get overwhelmed easily. it would be very easy to misrepresent low demand parenting and criticise without actually understanding it properly and seeing it in action, so I won’t try and explain or defend it here

whilst learning about this, I discovered that actually there is much debate about permissive parenting, for example see parentingscience.com/permissive-parenting/ We are generally terrified of being the permissive parent and quick to judge others, but it’s a complicated subject.

for now we are sticking with low demand parenting, and my son is flourishing compared to where he was a few months ago, it’s working and it’s saved our relationship and both of our mental and physical health. I would have judged a parent doing the things I’m doing now, I’ve had to unlearn so much and start again but I’m so glad and relieved to have found this method and shudder to think of what would have happened if we hadn’t found it

guess what I’m saying is that the parenting style not only has to work for you and your child, but also the time of life you are in and things change, both in your family and in our understanding of child development and best parenting practices, so it’s a dance over time and something to keep coming back to.

I agree that gentle parenting CAN work, but most people don’t apply it properly. Also don’t think it works for all kids even if done properly. Many parents end up not having any boundaries and very antisocial behaviour is normalised.

Makes dealing with said kids a nightmare for anyone else.

I did not do gentle parenting. I couldn’t have even if I wanted to - I was far too shouty (to my shame) and my child was a dogmatic nightmare unmoved by any consequence.

Something in between gentle and authoritarian is better. As for smacking? Mostly no, generally for safety e.g. third time toddler fiddling with plug socket a sharp smack on hand got message over when a nice “don”t do that because” didn’t. Better than an electric shock in my opinion.

I’m another who thinks that true gentle parenting is just common sense, but the problem is that it’s been sold as a way for useless people to feel OK about not wanting to parent their children. So they go around telling everyone they’re gentle parenting, and the general public starts to believe that gentle parenting is a euphemism for not parenting.

And there are more of the useless people than the ones with common sense, hence why teachers are leaving in droves.

I was emotionally abused as a kid and had authoritarian parents, which was shit, but at least it produced kids that know how to follow instructions.

Hmm I'm not sure the description is accurate. I don't think authoritative parenting necessarily means shouting. It just means having high expectations balanced by high support. Authoritarian parenting would be shouting and bossing kids about!

I'm personally not sold on gentle parenting. In my experience with people who use this style, it doesn't seem to be about having boundaries at all. What I have seen is giving children a lot of agency, choice and grace - which is good to a point - but I've only really seen this result in really stroppy kids who behave quite badly. Possibly because they are not being given simple boundaries and are anxious? Not sure

Hi OP, I completely empathise with you. Bear in mind that the stuff that gets to the top of the SM algorithm isn't always the best info. It's quite easy to spend too much time on IG feeling like a failure 😅

I have three DC, 6, 4, and 1. IME you're in one of the difficult stages, so be kind to yourself.

For me "general parenting" is all about giving due care to your child's inner emotional life.

This doesn't mean being permissive, in fact quite the opposite: there is the idea that permissiveness can leave children feeling insecure, whereas clear, caring boundaries will make them feel more secure. It makes sense to me that a four year old is going to want their parent to look like they know what they are doing, and have everything under control (even when it's actually chaos 🤣).

There is some good info on SM, backed up by research, with a realistic view of what's possible, it just takes a while to find it. I like https://www.janetlansbury.com/

Parenting is the art of the possible. I started out making everything hard for myself. Now I have three kids, I find myself shouting "DON'T POKE THAT STICK IN THE BABY'S EAR!" More often than I'd like to. I which I didn't, but I'm outnumbered!