To think Dh is wrong (racist question)

[Tuddlepops]

We have lots of African families living near us now. It's a recent thing. We get on very well with all we've met. They come from a few different countries.
Today I chatted to another new black neighbour over the back. Never spoken her before. Dh said I wonder which African country she's from. I said London by the sounds of it 🙄🤣 He said no originally. I said ok I'll ask for a rundown of her heritage.

I know he's wrong just want to show him as he's convinced I am and it's not an unusual thing to ask. He's otherwise intelligent. What happens to people to make them not think about the obvious?

@Devilsadvocat have you read all of my replies? He isn't racist. He just couldn't see what would be wrong in asking about Africa.

Anyway he isn't going to ask. He'll talk about normal things when he sees her.

It happened to me as well!

Similarly, as a someone who is not from the UK and has a strong accent I sometimes ask other people with an accent where they are from. This includes black and white people.
I never thought they would take it as racist, I would never ask someone because of their skin colour, it is always prompted by the accent.

Don't think it's racist to ask that question. I get curious about 'white' people living in London and wonder if they have any Irish/Eastern European/French ancestry. I wouldn't hesitate to ask them either.

I cannot believe anyone cannot understand that looking at a black person and wondering where they (they) are "originally from" - is racist.

Why would you ask someone where they are originally from?
Because you believe they are not 'from' where you are.

Why would you do that based purely on the colour of their skin?

Because you don't believe that anyone with brown skin can be British.

Why is that?

Your family can be traced back seven generations and if you're black you'll still be asked where you're originally from.

Let's not pretend we don't all know what this is. Please. After everything that's happened the last few days can people still not find the courage to take an honest look at themselves and their hidden beliefs?

When people say "originally" what they often mean is, where do your ancestors come from.

Many people whose ancestors have been in the UK for hundreds of years don't really know where their ancestors come from, though some do for sure. Most people who are more recent arrivals, say in the last 100 years, on the other hand, do know. And of course it has implications for all kinds of things like family traditions etc.

Lots of people are quite happy to talk about their ancestral roots and some really enjoy it, a few others tend to get offended, they see the implications "you aren't from here." Usually it's possible to avoid this with careful word choice, unfortunately not everyone is great with language.

But imo it's not racist to ask, but it's a good idea to be cognizant of how it's done. Often it's possible to wait for a moment in a conversation where it's natural to discuss such things.

But there's a big difference between this coming up organically vs the dreaded, "no, where are you from originally" question? surely that's obvious?

I was interviewing two English black women for something (not a job) a while back. We were talking specifically about the issue of being black in a white country in a job where whiteness is very much the norm. Both had English accents and as part of the conversation it was clear they'd been educated in England. The issue of their culture did not come up and was completely irrelevant for the vast bulk of the conversation which was about being promoted, getting client time etc.

Until we got onto the topic of an activity they'd taken part in at work where everyone had to contribute a favourite recipe for some kind of charitable staff recipe book. Both had contributed a recipe from the country their parents were born in (Nigeria and Ghana) and that had precipitated a further discussion.

So yes, of course it comes up organically. But it isn't relevant in the context of opening chit chat.

nd the PP who mentioned a friend who married a woman whose family had come from Africa and that impacting culture - of course that's normal. Similarly to if you marry someone who is white but from a different "culture". My brother married a woman from a different, albeit white, culture - it has impacted lots of things in relatively small and interesting ways from how their children are educated to christmas traditions.

It’s a bit of a hot potato really and personally I wouldn’t ask but if a white person was born and brought up in Japan I’d be genuinely interested to know where their family was from originally and would probably ask them.

It can be very othering to ask what.someones heritage is very early in the acquaintance, as though that's of more importance to you than polite interest. If someone has a non UK accent I think it's fine to ask where their accent is from as part of social conversation but I wouldn't just go on appearances.

I think better wording, if the occasion is right, would be 'family background ' or 'heritage' rather than 'where are you originally from'. I ask most people I know socially eventually if I get to know them well as I have close white friends from non British family backgrounds and I love knowing friends' family stories. Many people ask me too and I'm happy with that. I wouldn't just ask someone at work or who'd moved in though

It's fine that people have different backgrounds. We're not one homogeneous mass and don't have to pretend not to notice race but it's not polite to sound like assumptions have been made or it's the most interesting or significant thing about someone.

I'm sure your husband didn't mean to appear racist to you but I think if he'd approached your new neighbour with 'where are you originally from, then?' she may not have felt very welcome. There are loads of good books on this you could recommend, 'why I'm not longer talking to white people about race' for instance

Also, take away the racial element per se before merrily asking personal questions as their background might be complicated and the individual might just want a simple interaction with no personal business brought in or follow up questions. That's why I say it's fine to ask if the social circs are right.

Quite. It would be rude and tactless, but not racist (unless that word really has lost all of its actual meaning).

DD is mixed race (me white, father black) and I have had people asking similar questions about her heritage, so I ignore the fact that they are obviously referring to her colour and tell them the truth, that her father and I are both English by birth but I am from an Irish family. What can they say?!

Yes, it is racist because no one would ask a white person that question.

@BloodyHellKenAgain I get asked as my northern accent isn't the local one. I've been asked if I'm from Yorkshire, Newcastle and in the states am I Australian or Irish.

I only posted here as couldn't ask friends about it. Some will agree with me and some wouldn't understand why I'd be bothered. That another story. Plus it's between me dh and you lot 🙂

Exactly this

Really? If you weren't sure if someone was Polish or Bulgarian, you wouldn't ask them?

Exactly. If someone asks me where I'm from I'll say India. Because that's where my ethnicity traces.

The DH obviously has no ill will and is just curious where in Africa the neighbour is from. (Because each country within Africa is very very different).

Get out of here with your very reasonable response will you, don't know why some people think that any mention of somebody's ethnic background means that person is racist. The OP will probably be told to pack her bags and leave him before we know it lol. Some people just love being outraged on other peoples behalf

But the neighbour is originally from London. Her heritage is a separate thing. He is wrong.

Asking where are you originally from can be racially loaded but I think its ok to ask what's your ethnicity? If the person does not have a British accent then I think its OK to ask where they are from straight off. If their accent is British then its a question maybe not for a first conversation, but not racist either.

I genuinely think people get this wrong sometimes. Where I live (in Ireland) it's acceptable to ask not only where you grew up but whether your parents were from there, sometimes it's due to loyalty in county sports but it's mostly just a curiosity thing and people tend to be asked or offer, sometimes down to the town their grandparents lived in or where their Dad went to school. I've heard people who are immigrants complain at being asked the same questions not understanding its just a thing we all do.

I hate it when people come out with "But where are you REALLY from?" bollocks. However, I am not sure if it means they are inherently racist, more clumsy. My own DH used to deliver goods. He would tell me about his day and say things like" My first customer was lovely and gave me a tip, the second bloke was a tw*t, the third guy was a black bloke and made me a cup of tea..." I would then ask him what colour the first 2 customers were. He would reply, "What do you mean? They were white." I ask him why he didn't feel the need to tell me that, so why mention the colour of the last customer. When we moved house I had met the neighbours the week before while checking out my new route to work. I told my DH that it was a family with 2 kids on one side, and an elderly coupe opposite. When we moved in hubby asked me why I hadn't mentioned that it was an Asian family next door. I replied, "Oh sorry, I also forgot to mention that it's a white couple opposite." He was like, " What's that got to do with it? Do I think my husband is racist? Well I am mixed race, with a black parent, so I don't think so!

@Ihopeithinkiknow I was thinking of LTB but seen as he's pretty perfect and would prefer us to be the only white people in the street (well apart from 2 families) I'll stay.

Id stay away from the question « where are you from (originally) »

If you make friends with people it will usually come up in conversation naturally, at which point its fine to ask a couple of polite questions. I’d always wait for them to mention it first though.

Just standard politeness really.

Why would you ever ask because someone had an accent ? Why is it your business ?

@Ihopeithinkiknow thank you.

@LesMisSaigon oh God yes I've heard that a few times. I usually answer similarly. Not dh other people.

Which is completely different because if they’re not speaking English, they probably don’t have a “London” accent like OP’s neighbour.

Exactly!!!

Some people are so fake and are pretending like they don’t know this an inappropriate question.

I live in Cornwall.
My new (white) neighbour has moved in with a very strong Cornish accent.

She is Cornish/British so why would I ask her what country she is originally from, when it is obvious she is from the same area and country as me?

Why would it be any different if she happened to be black?

I may ask her where she’s moved from, but I am not going to ask her about a country she’s probably never even been to.

Some people will never accept black and brown people as being British, no matter how many generations have lived here.
It’s very sad.

If you wouldn’t ask your white neighbour what country they are originally from, then don’t ask your black neighbour.