To think Dh is wrong (racist question)

[Tuddlepops]

We have lots of African families living near us now. It's a recent thing. We get on very well with all we've met. They come from a few different countries.
Today I chatted to another new black neighbour over the back. Never spoken her before. Dh said I wonder which African country she's from. I said London by the sounds of it 🙄🤣 He said no originally. I said ok I'll ask for a rundown of her heritage.

I know he's wrong just want to show him as he's convinced I am and it's not an unusual thing to ask. He's otherwise intelligent. What happens to people to make them not think about the obvious?

OP said a lot of African families have moved to their area recently. I took from the context of her post, which was that she's friendly with them, she knows they are African. They do not know this new neighbour is African, and she has a London accent, which is why she feels her DH is not asking an appropriate question.

If they had a foreign name or accent, very probably. Not really relevant in this case though. We have a German surname, constantly being asked where it's from.

If you are not a person if colour you can’t possibly know what it’s like.

No, I mean where are you really from? I'm really from Hackney said Ngozi Fulani.

I'm the black person you're looking for. It's not racist at all to ask somebody what their heritage is (unless your reply when they tell you is to "go back there!")

I live in a part of the UK where there is a lot of migration from other areas of the UK. I asked my white manager the other day, "Where are you really from?"

When she told me Scotland, we wasted a lot of time talking about how wonderful Scotland is.

No offence caused. Some brilliant conversations can be had when we stop worrying about if we're going to offend somebody.

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that we need to have these conversations. We're all a bit too guarded with everything that's going on right now.

I’m pretty sure being asked a flipping question about where you come from isn’t that bad.. unless you’ve been taught that it’s racist and offensive. You can chose to take offence and feel offended about pretty much everything. I don’t think that mindset does anybody any good

It makes zero difference if he meant which African country. This language doesn’t make a big difference. It’s all nonsense dreamed up in academic institutions. Honestly if we’ve sorted racial discrimination to the point that the battleground is now over people getting a bit upset because someone asked them where they came from, i think the hard work is finished

My friends who who have Asian or Afro-Caribbean heritage get really sick of the ‘where are you REALLY from?’. This question generally ISNT asked of white people.

Where are you from? Fine. Where are you REALLY from? Not fine in my opinion. Take my answer and I’ll tell you more IF I want to.

But what if you are a white woman who IS originally from Zimbabwe or South Africa?

It's a strange one. Some people mind because it others them and others don't mind (and probably ask the question myself). I belong to the latter camp. I don't ask the question anymore because I've read that it makes some people feel uncomfortable but to be honest thet had never occurred to me.

Yes, it's true. If I didn't look Asian or spoke with a strange accent people might not ask where I am from "originally'" but I see it as people taking an interest in my life and I feel humans are naturally curious. I don't mind if people notice that I am not white. They don't have to pretend I am white. There is nothing wrong with not being white. There is nothing wrong with being an immigrant (though of course my view is coloured, pun unintended....Obviously a lot of people think there is plenty wrong with immigrants). I don't mind people taking an interest and asking me where I am from, when I came to the UK, where my accent is from, where in India I am from, etc. The only thing I don't like is if they say something derogatory. Like you won't believe how many people tell me pretty much as soon as they meet me something like "oh you are from India. Is it true that there are cows on the road/people use holes as toilets/people don't use cutlery". Ugggh. Not thst there is anything wrong with using indian style toilets (more hygienic and healthier) or eating with your hands but they make it sound as if it's primitive. Or they say "oh it's much nicer here isn't it?"

Anyway honest, non judgmental questions are always welcome. I love talking about myself (as might be clear from my post)

To get back on topic, op, I don't think there's anything wrong with your husband asking you which country your neighbour is from. You don't have to be colour blind. Just don't be derogatory.

Definitely not something you ask when you start chatting and even if he did ask later down the line he should ask what her heritage is rather than where she’s from originally. My children are mixed race, Asian and white and plenty of people ask me about their heritage and I’m happy to give the details, but no-one has never asked me where they are from originally as the answer is south london. Their dad, born in north london has been asked many times and answers london, but if asked about heritage he’s happy to answer. But you wouldn’t ask someone that when you first meet them

Luckily for me, I socialise with people from all parts of the world who choose not to offended by what we consider an inoffensive question.

I'm not disregarding your friends feelings at all, by the way.

I completely understand that people that look like me, are brown, are Eastern European etc can be offended by the question.

We all have different experiences which may make this question triggering.

I myself have been a victim of a race crime.

I just think life is too short to be offended by somebody taking a genuine interest in my heritage.

Are you originally from somewhere other than the UK? What if you are from the UK but constantly have white people refusing to accept this? Enquiring about someone's ethnic heritage is different from flat out refusing to believe someone is from the UK; in effect demanding that they justify their presence here just because of their skin colour.

The point is that your accent indicates that you ARE from somewhere else. What if someone IS originally from the UK and has a UK accent but is constantly being told, in so many words, that they don't belong here because of the colour of their skin?

But why does anybody want to know? This is the thing I can’t get my head around. My MIL has Eastern European heritage but as a white woman she is NEVER asked. Her heritage is fleeing from the nazis so very interesting, but nobody asks because she is white. She shares it if it comes up.To me, that’s the racism. It’s othering those with brown skin. If you want to share your heritage or your children’s heritage, that’s fine, but why should anyone feel the need to ask?

I think it’s fine to be offended or not offended. What I think is important is that those of us who are white and hold the privilege of not having to field these questions, are mindful of what we ask, why we are asking it and how we ask it. It’s on the question asker to take responsibility for being thoughtful, not the person of colour to manage whether or not it feels uncomfortable. If it does, it does, and often for good reason.

Asking where you are from is fine. Only asking people with brown skin is racist. Challenging the answer with only those with brown skin is racist. IMO.

But if you are white and go to a " non white" country then you will be asked where you are from

But what if they didn't have a foreign name or accent? What then?

If you as a (presumably white woman) were asked by your neighbour 'where have you moved from?' and answered 'Bristol,' would you not find it weird if they then asked "okay but where are you from originally?'
'Bristol?'
'But where were you born?'
'Bristol!'
'Okay, where are your family from?'
'Bristol...'
'But where was your mum born???'
Would you REALLY think 'wow what a nice friendly neighbour,' or 'wtf what a weirdo, why is he asking so many questions, why is it so unbelievable that I could come from Bristol?

If someone is 'really proud' of their heritage then they will bring it up themselves!
If they asked the neighbour 'where have you moved from?' and THEY SAY 'London, but my family are from Africa,' then it would be fine to say 'Oh, what country.' Because they have volunteered the information. If they just say 'London,' then asking them further questions because as a black person you don't think they can REALLY be from London, is racist.

Similarly, if OP's DH gets to know their neighbours, as time goes on presumably they will talk about things like background, their job, extended family members via normal conversation. Completely fine!

How on earth can't you see that is completely different from being interrogated as soon as you first meet someone in a way you wouldn't be if you had a different skin colour?

I guess so. What’s your point? Is this hypothetical country where I am living? Does it have a history of treating white people like second class citizens? Am I more likely to be searched by the police? Are people more likely to call me names? Am I more likely to experience verbal and physical abuse? Will my medical needs be consistently ignored? Will some parents stop my kids playing with theirs because of the colour of their skin? Is that question likely to lead to them challenging me to be more specific? Will it likely lead to them telling me to fuck of back to where I belong? If so, I’ll probably feel a bit on edge to be honest.

Because as a white person with a British accent it would be flipping obvious to anyone you spoke to in the Carribean that you were highly unlikely to be from there.

Whereas it's completely plausible that a black woman with a London accent is from...London! Therefore it's rude and racist to ask her where she's 'originally' from.

I can't speak for anyone else but I grew up in another European country where I speak the language as a native speaker without accent and I was asked the same question over there as well and it didn't offend me. Again, I like people taking an interest in me and I don't think that not being Caucasian(or being of a different ethnicity) is something to be ashamed of. I also don't mind if people notice and ask about differences. As long as they aren't derogatory.

I can see though that it totally depends on your experiences and I can see how other people feel othered by it. Maybe I don't mind being othered as long as whatever 'other' I am gets the same respect as being in the in-group. I'll also say that in the country I grew up in people are a lot more straight forward and direct than the British maybe so maybe I'm just used to people asking what they want to know without being overly diplomatic about it.

apart from anything else, why does it matter?
Is he suggesting he would feel differently about her if she was from Nigeria compared to Kenya?
Her family origins are like her exact age or job title or her middle name...something you might find out at some stage if you become friendly with a neighbour but which it would be weird to demand as soon as you first met them!

If it’s asked with great respect and a very genuine interest in and regard for a person could it ever be asked in a ‘getting to know each other better’ kind of a way? Probably I think, but only when it’s established that your relationship is at that level.

It sounds like she is from England. HTH.