Shamima Begum

[Mamabear04]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2n8xv61x3o

I'll admit I actually don't know much about this apart from it being on the news when it happened and I did watch a documentary about it. Do you think she should be allowed to have British citizenship? I mean she was a child when it happened, surely she was groomed? And now stateless, doomed to live indefinitely in a camp with nowhere to go? I think running away to join Isis is of course absolutely awful but surely she should be treated as a child that was groomed? Or am I missing something?

You're not missing anything. I agree with you. She's not a sympathetic character but I listened to the brilliant in depth podcast about this, and I can't see how this decision is remotely justified.

She is no threat to Britain. She's already been through a world of pain and loss and she's still only 24.

She was a stupid kid who was trafficked and abused.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I agree with you both - she should be brought back along with any other british women and children. Unfortunately this thread will be set upon soon by others who disagree.

She didnt know what she was doing - SHE WAS A CHILD!

She was 15. A child. Of course she didn’t know exactly what she was doing.

So only people who agree can post on this thread?!

No sympathy for her at all. She’s made her bed. She has shown no remorse at all.

She was a child when she was groomed and failed by the UK authorities just before she left. Surely that is relevant here and it should be considered.
It is illegal under international law to remove someone's citizenship and she doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship. No doubt at some stage it will be found in her favour.

Kids frequently play stupid games and she was a kid. She's had what, three or more babies die and is stateless in a camp? Even though she was born a British citizen? It's terrifying. If it can happen to her it can happen to you.

I think she should come back.
We understand how children can be groomed and sexually or criminally exploited. I would suggest children can also be groomed into supporting an idealogy.
If she is still a threat she can be managed and monitored.

I do wonder if attitudes would be different if she was a young blonde girl who was groomed by extremists

Oh wait, we have evidence of how different it would be

She was groomed.

Yep. This .

What about the kids who killed James Bulger? Should they be forgiven?

The 2 kids who were in the news recently who killed the 19 year old? Them too? They're still children after all

However terrible anyone's behaviour is, you should never make a person stateless.

She was a child who was people trafficked to be a Syrian ‘bride’. Groomed, trafficked, radicalised.

She should probably live under restrictions of some kind, as she’s still radicalised. We don’t get to remove citizenship from 30 year old serial killers.

I genuinely don’t understand it.

Who is that, please?

Yes but they have not been made stateless, that is entirely different!

I have no opinions on her as an individual, but I tend to believe that our judicial system is robust and our judges professional. Therefore, I trust that the decision is correct, even if it unfortunate for her personally.

On a point of accuracy, the BBC is wrong about her being made stateless. This is not possible to do. People can only be stripped of citizenship when they have citizenship of another country, even if they have never applied for a passport.

What I find extraordinarily disappointing is that the Iraq / Turkey / Syria border still has camps full of people in limbo. I read years ago that the local Kurdish people have de facto control over the area, but have not been permitted to put the camp inmates on trial for the crimes they have been accused of. This is a travesty that shows a complete lack of international cooperation.

Teens are well known for making bad decisions and not considering repercussions because their brains don't fully mature until their mid 20s.
Consider how much knife crime is committed by teens arming themselves for 'protection' when it just increases the danger to them, risks criminal convictions and ruins lives (theirs and those they harm).
That's why their names are usually withheld when charged/convicted and they get lesser sentences and go into youth detention.

I also listened to the podcast.

I do think it's a very challenging problem.

Yes she absolutely was a child and groomed. However no I'm not at all convinced she is or can be de-radicalised. Do you want to reintroduce a destabilising influence back into the country? Do you risk allowing others to be groomed by her?

And thats leaving aside what she may or may not have actually done in the intervening period.

Sometimes you do have to make an example of people. Unfortunately she is absolutely perfect in terms of media profile for making an example.

Life ain't fair. Sometimes you have to play the card of hands you're dealt, whether you dealt them for yourself or not.

Goodness me, I wouldn't like to be judged on the dumb things I did at 15. I didn't run away to Syria, at least.

Yes, I do feel they should have made allowances for the fact that she was groomed at a young age, as a child, and I don't think she's any threat at all to GB. However, she hasn't endeared herself to anyone, as she seems blissfully unaware that the course of action she took was wrong.

I reckon if she had made a clear apology from the start and completely renounced ISIS and everything they stand for then she would have got a more favourable outcome.

Do you say that about all groomed teens? All sexually assaulted or trafficked or pulled into drug dealing? Do you say that about them all? Or just the brown ones?

She was 15 when she left the country, a child who had been manipulated and groomed. She was failed.

I absolutely do believe she should be able to return back to the UK.

Why do we have to like her, not everyone is particularly likeable is this how we should judge people?

But what other citizenship does she have then?