Shamima Begum

[Mamabear04]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2n8xv61x3o

I'll admit I actually don't know much about this apart from it being on the news when it happened and I did watch a documentary about it. Do you think she should be allowed to have British citizenship? I mean she was a child when it happened, surely she was groomed? And now stateless, doomed to live indefinitely in a camp with nowhere to go? I think running away to join Isis is of course absolutely awful but surely she should be treated as a child that was groomed? Or am I missing something?

Who's talking about ethnicity?

She clearly isn't British. The courts have said so.

The end.

She isn't going to be let back in. There is no longer an "if" as she's now exhausted the legal processes available to try to get back in.

Ridiculous statement!

So perfectly legal 👍🏻

lay with dogs catch fleas.

Tell me exactly what crimes Tommy Robinson has committed

Well, it's quite a long list so I might not remember his entire criminal record, but to the best of my knowledge he has been convicted of:

• Mortgage fraud
• Immigration fraud (which is ironic, isn't it)
• Drug dealing
• Drug possession
• Stalking
• Actual bodily harm
• Assaulting a police officer
• Resisting arrest
• Football hooliganism

and additionally numerous other violent crimes.

At least one of his convictions for ABH and assault of a police officer took place when the police officer was intervening in a domestic violence incident in which Robinson's girlfriend was the victim.

He is currently due to stand trial for further crimes relating to contempt of court, and his current sojourn in Cyprus is the result of him evading his legal obligation to attend his own trial.

While he hasn't (yet) been charged with any offences relating to the incitement of the current outbreak of violent racial hatred in the UK, Shamima Begum hasn't been charged with anything either. The removal of her citizenship was instead of charging her with a crime, not in addition to charging her. So if we can take away her citizenship for a potential terror offence she hasn't stood trial for, we should certainly be able to to take away Tommy Robinson's (or Steven Yaxley-Lennon's, to give him his real name) citizenship without a trial as well.

As far as I understand, when her citizenship was removed she was still young enough to qualify for Bangladeshi citizenship. So presumably she was not made stateless.

I further understand that the appeals are against the initial decision being appropriate or not. Not if she has subsequently lost her opportunity to take up Bangladeshi citizenship because she did not apply for it.

Edit - sorry had not seen the above post pointing out the same when I posted this

You're right, and no doubt her not attempting to obtain Bangladeshi citizenship was because she thought it would force the UK court's hand.

In reality what happened was she made herself stateless.

Precisely, I would say

At 15 she was a child and every effort should have been made to get her back if at all possible (which I assume it wasn't possible to do due to her being in the middle of a war).

But at 19 as an adult she told the Times that seeing decapitated heads in bins ‘didn’t faze’ her.' In correspondence with a journalist who said he was sorry for the deaths of her children she replied saying she was 'over' that. She has tried to mould herself into whatever she thinks will get most sympathy from the British public, started wearing modern clothes and a baseball cap and saying how sorry she is about it all - after the interview with the Times went down like a lead balloon. Even after that though she said in another interview that the people killed in the Manchester arena were killed in retaliation which she thought was just - but back tracked on it afterwards when pushed.

From what I can understand she could have had dual citizenship until the age of 21 of both the UK and Bangladesh, but after 21 you can't have dual nationality any more by Bangladeshi law. However she could obtain Bangladeshi citizenship now as she doesn't have UK citizenship any more - but she's not interested.

The article says she'll be going to the European Court of Human Rights next, but what really pisses me off is that £250,000 has already been wasted on her legal costs, all paid for by the British tax payer. She can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned.

But by this token, why do you think it is the responsibility of the Kurds in Northern Syria, and Iraq, whom ISIS have already caused so much suffering, to be responsible for her?

(Whether or not you believe she was groomed, which i do, or think she should have had her citizenship removed, which I do not.)

Nope

Syrians would almost certainly rather have her there themselves than have her living the life of luxury in a UK prison (before serving 1/3 and being released)

They served their sentence and were freed.
SB should serve a sentence here. Not be dumped on another country. We have to manage our own criminals.

Everyone who thinks she was too young at the age of 15, I remind you of scarlet Jenkinson who planned and carried out the murder of Brianna ghey at the age of 15.

15 is old enough to know what’s right and what’s wrong.

Maybe people should read the thread

It's not permitted in the UK, with good reason.

And times have changed, when I was a teen, we always went out with boys and young men who were unsuitably old. I briefly dated a 26 year old when I was 19. OK I wasn't 15. It may not be acceptable now but don't be so determined to shout grooming, as if women don't have free will.

And to address another poster's point, the Daily Heil isn't making the decision - the highest judges in the land are, and they aren't silly old codgers from 1970s courts who tell rape victims they were asking for it, they are sensible, intelligent, highly educated professionals.

I really couldn't give a stuff about her. I am far more concerned about all the women who will be murdered by men this week. As if there haven't been enough already in recent months and years.

How dare they disagree! For what it's worth I think as a British citizen she's a problem Britain should deal with. However she's hard to sympathise with.

Yes she was. As much as anyone else born in the UK. Until they removed her citizenship and left her stateless. How about they remove your citizenship when you make a stupid decision at 15 led by a friend telling you she has moved to an awesome place where everyone is happy? And then your children all die and you are left living in a camp? But it’s fine because the courts said you aren’t British so there 🤷‍♀️

She did not openly show remorse initially at a time when she was still very much under the watch of ISIS and could have been punished in the camp if she had criticised them.

Even if she personally is a terrorist it really doesn’t matter. She is a British terrorist if so and should be dealt with through British courts

On a personal level I don't like her and don't care what happens to her. I don't buy the "she was 15" arguments. Most 15 year olds know murder and suicide bombing is wrong and don't go to actively participate/support it.

On a more fundamental level, however, I don't think she should have had her citizenship removed. She was born in the UK and it sets a dangerous precedent of ignoring the rule of law. It is also blatantly racist in that if my white, blonde, christian-background daughter (who was also born in the UK) did this there is absolutely no way she would have her citizenship revoked. Given a life sentence, maybe, but not have citizenship revoked. That's why I think it needs to be reinstated, regardless of what Begum is actually like/if she feels remorse, etc.

I want to be able to trust that our government and legal system actually follow the law (don't take it for granted that they do, by the way - they are currently ignoring declarations of the ICJ regarding Israel, so they very much pick and choose which laws they want to follow, which is pretty terrifying).

I agree with prior posters re being a child and being groomed. I also think, if we do think she’s a threat, surely we would prefer her in Britain where she can be watched very carefully?

She's not British.

So relieved its been the final NO! How of much tax payers money has been spent on this so far. Hopefully thats the end of it. Shes made her bed, she can bloody well lie in it

@Aussieland

How about they remove your citizenship when you make a stupid decision at 15 led by a friend telling you she has moved to an awesome place where everyone is happy? And then your children all die and you are left living in a camp?

Well when you put it like that, it could happen to anyone couldn't it?

One minute you're doing your GCSE's, listening to pop music and chatting with friends about fashion, boys and your hobbies. The next you've wandered off into the middle of a festival of rape, beheadings and suicide bombings, cheering on deranged terrorists in an enclave that's trying to return to the dark ages, thousands of miles away.

Only by luck that it wasn't us, isn't it?

🙄

@mirax
How wonderfully hysterical. This girl has not killed anyone though. If I'd said IRA, would that have helped? "Blued eyed" enough to make my point? Blued eyed people are capable of the same level of violence as the non blue eyed. Hth

I don't think she should have been stripped of her UK citizen ship.

For those who think otherwise, there was an interesting programme on R4 a little while back, about a grandfather searching for his grandchildren in the camps.

They also interviewed women trapped there, similar to Samima, they are well and truly trapped in no man's land!
They are human beings, whose lives are on hold until someone, somewhere decides otherwise.

I'll try and find it later when I have a bit more time... (a quick search didn't bring it up, so I hope it's still available!!)