Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Shamima Begum

360 replies

Mamabear04 · 07/08/2024 14:30

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2n8xv61x3o

I'll admit I actually don't know much about this apart from it being on the news when it happened and I did watch a documentary about it. Do you think she should be allowed to have British citizenship? I mean she was a child when it happened, surely she was groomed? And now stateless, doomed to live indefinitely in a camp with nowhere to go? I think running away to join Isis is of course absolutely awful but surely she should be treated as a child that was groomed? Or am I missing something?

Shamima Begumphotographed at Roj Camp in Syria, where she is currently interred with other women who were members of Islamic State, on March 14, 2021.

Shamima Begum loses citizenship removal appeal bid

The 24-year-old will not be allowed to challenge the removal of her British citizenship at the Supreme Court.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2n8xv61x3o

OP posts:
ImikSiMik · 07/08/2024 15:32

mirax · 07/08/2024 15:18

That's quite some hysterical reasoning.

@mirax How is it hysterical reasoning? Is it because he is white he can't be labelled a terrorist and prosecuted? That's two tier policing and justice then.

KreedKafer · 07/08/2024 15:33

She was born in Britain and had a British passport by birth. She wasn't awarded citizenship as an immigrant because she didn't immigrate here. She is British, and has never held citizenship of any country other than Britain and therefore I don't think Britain should be able to remove the citizenship of anyone who has an automatic right to it by birth, under any circumstances.

She has committed a terrible crime and I think she should pay the same price any other British criminal would pay. When someone like, eg, Rose West or Levi Bellfield commits a crime, we deal with them with a criminal trial and sentence. We don't just announce that they're no longer British and refuse them a trial. Therefore we shouldn't be doing that to Shamima Begum either.

Whether or not she was groomed or vulnerable at the time of her crime and whether her age was relevant should be neither here nor there in terms of her citizenship. Even if she knew exactly what appalling crime she was committing and wasn't manipulated or groomed at all, she still shouldn't have her citizenship by birth taken away on that basis. Whether she was groomed or not should be an argument put forward in a criminal court (as it would be for any other defendant who committed their crime when they were 15) and the judge can consider whether it is or isn't a mitigating factor when sentencing.

I've got virtually no sympathy with her on a personal level, in fact. I don't think there are any excuses for her crimes. But I do think it's a slippery fucking slope if we just start telling British people they're not British in lieu of giving them a trial. I think a lot of people who think the withdrawal of citizenship is OK only think it's OK because she's non-white, and haven't realised that that this could happen to any British-born person, not just British-born people with dark skin and immigrant parents.

User7171 · 07/08/2024 15:33

Sexisthairdressers · 07/08/2024 14:57

What evidence do you have for this?

Maybe the fact that she's openly said so herself in interviews?

And no, I can't be arsed to go looking for them for you.

mirax · 07/08/2024 15:33

Mamabear04 · 07/08/2024 15:08

It seems like most people are just annoyed she's not said sorry. I get that but I also think that she must be traumatised after everything that's happened? Is her manner fitting with someone who has experienced the death of 3 children? Not everyone can cry and be emotional after that kind of trauma...

The trauma of the yazidi girls kept as sex slaves by your poor wittle "groomed" ISIS idiots counts for shits and giggles? No wonder you produce so many Isis wannabes - you have rather a perverted sense of morality.

K0OLA1D · 07/08/2024 15:34

Qwertys · 07/08/2024 15:12

She was groomed. The adult man in his 20s that she “married” at 15 was soooo dreamy she just had to go to Syria to be with him. Typical 15-year-old stuff.

It’s extremely unlikely she ever did anything over there other than be raped and have babies. She was not a fighter. That is not the role of women and girls in Islamic State ideology.

People comparing her to the Bulger killers are nuts. And by the way, they have been “forgiven”, in the sense that they served a sentence deemed appropriate for their crime and were released. What is her route to redemption?

I'm not comparing her to the James Bulger killers.

I was arguing the 'she was just a child' line. As they were.

SundayBloodySunday · 07/08/2024 15:34

I don't see how this is remotely fair or even legal. She was a child. If she was born of German parents and ran away to join the AfD, I very much doubt she would be treated the same.

User7171 · 07/08/2024 15:34

@KreedKafer

She is British

Clearly she isn't.

Qwertys · 07/08/2024 15:35

K0OLA1D · 07/08/2024 15:34

I'm not comparing her to the James Bulger killers.

I was arguing the 'she was just a child' line. As they were.

Edited

Indeed, and their punishment reflected that. Does hers?

mirax · 07/08/2024 15:36

SundayBloodySunday · 07/08/2024 15:34

I don't see how this is remotely fair or even legal. She was a child. If she was born of German parents and ran away to join the AfD, I very much doubt she would be treated the same.

Are the Afd running slave markets, blowing up infidels and burning people alive? If so , yes, never ever let your blue eyed darlings return home.

K0OLA1D · 07/08/2024 15:36

Qwertys · 07/08/2024 15:35

Indeed, and their punishment reflected that. Does hers?

I have no idea.

I would support her coming back and going to prison.

I am just arguing, as I said, the child remarks.

Technically the killer of the innocent girls last week wasn't an 'adult'. Being a child, over a certain age should not be used as an excuse.

MelIy · 07/08/2024 15:36

Indeed, and their punishment reflected that. Does hers?

Not all about her. She can face justice from the people she terrorised, they are who matter more.

EnterFunnyNameHere · 07/08/2024 15:37

I think she should have citizenship, not because I'm overflowing with sympathy for her, but because she born in Britain and was groomed/radicalised whilst in Britain. She is our problem, we can't just strip her citizenship and pretend she's nothing to do with us.

Jadee23 · 07/08/2024 15:37

StripedPiggy · 07/08/2024 15:12

This is excellent news, and absolutely the correct judgement by the Supreme Court. Now, Begum will never be able to blow herself up on a tube train or in a crowded building. Or at least not in the U.K.. She made her choice, now she can live with the consequences of that choice.

Well done, too, to Sajid Javid (a Muslim himself), the Home Secretary who had the backbone to remove British citizenship from a known terrorist. If only more politicians did likewise…

🙌🏻

OhmygodDont · 07/08/2024 15:38

Blah blah she was 15 a child. I sit looking at my 15 year old with a passport who hasn’t run off to join a terrorist organisation nor join a riot or any such bullshittery.

Let her rot for her part in being for crimes against other women and children. She wasn’t sorry at all till she realised we wouldn’t let her back. Tough titties.

KreedKafer · 07/08/2024 15:39

K0OLA1D · 07/08/2024 14:44

What about the kids who killed James Bulger? Should they be forgiven?

The 2 kids who were in the news recently who killed the 19 year old? Them too? They're still children after all

We haven't removed their citizenship and denied them a trial, though.

We don't have to 'forgive' anyone, but we absolutely should have the same legal process of arrest and trial for all British citizens. Therefore Begum should brought back to the UK, as a British citizen, to face trial and be sentenced. Exactly like the Bulger killers were.

mirax · 07/08/2024 15:40

ImikSiMik · 07/08/2024 15:32

@mirax How is it hysterical reasoning? Is it because he is white he can't be labelled a terrorist and prosecuted? That's two tier policing and justice then.

Tell me exactly what crimes TR has committed. Which proscribed terror group has he joined? The colour of his skin is irrelevant as white jihadis have joined ISIS and been punished in similar ways to Begum in other countries.

KreedKafer · 07/08/2024 15:42

User7171 · 07/08/2024 15:34

@KreedKafer

She is British

Clearly she isn't.

She was born in Britain to parents who were legally resident in Britain and has the same right to British citizenship as anyone else born in Britain. Her nationality is British. Nationality is not determined by ethnicity.

mirax · 07/08/2024 15:43

I wonder how many of you bleeding hearts will hire Begum to watch your children?

OhmygodDont · 07/08/2024 15:44

KreedKafer · 07/08/2024 15:42

She was born in Britain to parents who were legally resident in Britain and has the same right to British citizenship as anyone else born in Britain. Her nationality is British. Nationality is not determined by ethnicity.

She was also automatically entitled to wasn’t it Bangladeshi citizenship. Oh wait they don’t want her either.

The only way she should ever. Ever be allowed back should be to be locked in solitary for life. Her camps probably better than that.

Iwant20cats · 07/08/2024 15:44

KreedKafer · 07/08/2024 15:39

We haven't removed their citizenship and denied them a trial, though.

We don't have to 'forgive' anyone, but we absolutely should have the same legal process of arrest and trial for all British citizens. Therefore Begum should brought back to the UK, as a British citizen, to face trial and be sentenced. Exactly like the Bulger killers were.

It's highly likely that she will face trial if she is let back into the country

Workaholic99 · 07/08/2024 15:46

bilbodog · 07/08/2024 14:37

She didnt know what she was doing - SHE WAS A CHILD!

She might not have done when she initially left but she sure knew what she was doing for the next however many years she stayed before her citizenship was revoked. She is also incredibly manipulative if you listen to her interviews.

I found her story fascinating. She's a genuine psychopath.

Bonjovispjs · 07/08/2024 15:47

OhmygodDont · 07/08/2024 15:38

Blah blah she was 15 a child. I sit looking at my 15 year old with a passport who hasn’t run off to join a terrorist organisation nor join a riot or any such bullshittery.

Let her rot for her part in being for crimes against other women and children. She wasn’t sorry at all till she realised we wouldn’t let her back. Tough titties.

👏👏👏

K0OLA1D · 07/08/2024 15:49

KreedKafer · 07/08/2024 15:39

We haven't removed their citizenship and denied them a trial, though.

We don't have to 'forgive' anyone, but we absolutely should have the same legal process of arrest and trial for all British citizens. Therefore Begum should brought back to the UK, as a British citizen, to face trial and be sentenced. Exactly like the Bulger killers were.

Again, I am arguing the child comments.

If it was down to me, I'd have her back to live out her life in prison in the UK. She is our problem.

mirax · 07/08/2024 15:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

prh47bridge · 07/08/2024 15:51

Mamabear04 · 07/08/2024 14:47

But what other citizenship does she have then?

Contrary to what has been said on this thread, the BBC article is correct. She is stateless. She used to have Bangladeshi citizenship, but she lost that when she reached her 21st birthday. Crucially, the decision to remove her British citizenship was made when she was 19. If it had been made after her 21st birthday it would have been unlawful.