DH’s attitude re riots etc upsetting and angering me

[Pinkycloud]

I feel so sick. Every time we talk about the riots, DH comes out with ‘well people are angry, etc’. He says he doesn’t condone violence, but there’s always a ‘but’. He voted Reform, I voted Lib Dem. I tell him he sounds racist in some of the comments he makes, which he vehemently denies.

He’s a loving, hardworking husband and father but… this! He is honestly a good man. I don’t know how to deal with it other than banning the subject. Has anyone else got very different political views from their spouse or partner?

I’m not. Read the bloody post again !! In response to a poster who asked where peaceful protesters had been arrested I quoted a local report I’d heard saying that a group of pensioners were peacefully protesting the winter fuel payment cuts outside Downing Street - nothing whatsoever to do with what happened in Southport, or the rioters. According to our local news some were moved on by police and some were arrested after being caught up in rioting nearby. I have no idea how accurate the news report was but the suggestion was that the police didn’t differentiate between the two groups.

Show me where I’ve defended rioters at all, and explain what you mean by this:

right. So why are you defending the rioters again, calling them peacefully protesting patriots? Noone had an issue with peaceful protesters. But logic is not a strong suit of immigrant descendants voting for Reform

You’ve completely misinterpreted my post and you’ve repeatedly posted that the murders took place in Stockport instead of Southport, so you’re not displaying much logic yourself.

I don't disagree with you. I am just pointing out that the disturbances have root causes. I daresay people got equally upset when the women of Paris marched on the Bastille. Doesn't mean the women did not have a point (though an apter comparison might be the Gordon Riots which were founded on disinformation and sectarian hatreds - but even so George Gordon could not have got people out onto the streets unless they'd had some grievances, examples, poor working conditions, dreadful housing and not much available, few rights, lack of right to vote etc).

This is a generalisation.

When I first met DH in our 20s, he was a Tory voter. Not very clued up about politics, but his parents were Tories and he followed suit.
He's now, in his 50s, very much a centrist, and voted Labour last month.

One of my brothers was always a Labour voter. Now, in his late 50s, has moved further left. Very much Corbyn, not Starmer.

Ok, that's just an example of 2, but I don't know any men who have moved to the right as they got older.

(Another of my brothers has always been a right wing racist prick. Don't know if he moved further right, I haven't had a discussion with him properly for about 20 years).

Yep, I know three men who were right wing in their youth and became left wing. One actually went from admiring Enoch Powell to being a fan of Jeremy Corbyn!

It wasn't about fairness or two tier policing

It was about girls being repeatedly raped. If all white English men were allowed to get away with sex trafficking and all brown men were punished the main problem with that is NOT that it is "unfair" on the brown paedophiles. Likewise the other way round. If police were turning a blind eye to brown/Muslim men abusing children the main problem with that is not that it is "unfair" because white men were prosecuted for the same crimes. The victims were the girls. Maybe there is a side issue about fairness, but it is really really fucking minor.

If you had said "2 tier policing creates a situation where terrible things happen", then yes I might agree with you. But we aren't in some 0 sum game where as a white woman I "win" if my team gets away with committing more crimes relevant to the other team and lose if they commit more crimes.

You could equally make the argument that because certain white men have been allowed to incite violence, Anjem Choudry should also be released and allowed to incite violence. No.

Men move to the right as they get older. You could marry Labour and end up Reform.

People are allowed to change their minds about things. Voting isn't like pledging lifetime loyalty to your feudal lord.

I don’t think that’s so true anymore.And for me voting is like pledging loyalty to my feudal lord.

I don’t want a floater. I want someone with solid principles.

Yes, but those treated most unfairly aren't always the ones to cause the most violence/disturbance/shout the loudest. That doesn't mean you should dismiss the arguments of deprived communities because some of them are protesting violently. But it doesn't make the violent protesters somehow more sinned against than the people who aren't rioting. For a long time, parts of (not all) the left have sort of encouraged a "he who shouts the loudest/smashes the most stuff/complains most of being offended is in the right" mentality. Its really unhelpful for the centre and centre right to start doing the same (I think the far right always did).
There are some communities that are suffering terribly. It is morally right and politically sensible for Labour to listen to their grievances now they are in power. But it would still be morally right and politically sensible for Labour to do so if they hadn't rioted. Tying fixing Britain's very serious issues to the riots is dangerous. And its being hijacked by people like Farage who are trying to set themselves up as the voice of reason/official spokesman for what must be done. He is odious.

Also the French Revolution went pretty horribly bad quite quickly.

The government has scrapped the Rwanda scheme and shows no inclination to stop the boats crossing the Channel. In fact, the boats are not the real issue, the issue is poaching other countries' skilled workers, and the rate of legal immigration that the infrastructure of the UK cannot cope with.
I didn't get the 'open borders' info from upthread, but from a Prof of Sociology and Guardian reader - but the Guardian tells the most awful whoppers so it isn't infallibly true. You'd have got a better understanding of my point had you bothered to read what I said.

He's acknowledging a simple truth, a lot of people are angry. There's no denying that. He's not saying rioting is right, he's not saying he supports it. Perhaps he's trying to understand it. With understanding comes a better chance of solving the issues or finding a compromise. I'd be worried if people weren't trying to understand the underlying issues.

A partner voting reform would give me more of an issue.

Agree. Can't stand Farage, either.

This is a detour from the main topic.

Most child sex abuse is done within the home or by family members or friends. That means that, outside of the child grooming scandal which was quite different, you would expect most south Asian children to be abused by south Asians, most white children to be abused by white adults etc, black children by black adults. A really huge, well known problem is the underreporting of child sexual abuse within many ethnic minority communities. There are plenty of reasons around this - distrust of the police, a culture of silence/shame for the victim, maybe the perpetrator being the main bread winner. But this skews the figures a lot, since if (eg) South Asian victims aren't reporting or are being silenced, then the South Asian perpetrators aren't being recorded in the statistics.

So outside the grooming gangs, you can't say that Asian men are more likely to be abusing children than white men. But you also can't say they are less likely. The stats only show what is reported.

And several women's groups from those backgrounds have called attention to this as an issue. It needs looking at, and it needs sensitivity but NOT political correctness. However, setting fire to peoples houses or attacking women in headscarves will not help.

I don’t think that’s so true anymore.And for me voting is like pledging loyalty to my feudal lord.
I don’t want a floater. I want someone with solid principles.

But politicians change their principles more often than underwear. They have zero loyalty to their voter. We really owe nothing to political parties.
Why is is bad to change your mind if you realize you might have been wrong?

outside the grooming gangs, you can't say that Asian men are more likely to be abusing children than white men. But you also can't say they are less likely. The stats only show what is reported
Exactly
If the police are reluctant to charge Asian grooming gangs, (and let's not call them 'grooming' they were raping underneath girls , it is likely te same reluctanceapplied to individuals.Please remember one in 4 white girls between 11 and 16 in Rotherh were approached
It was abuse and rape on an industrial scale.please stop minimising!

I’ve supported the same party all my life. So has everyone l know.I don’t know any floating voters.

I’ve supported the same party all my life. So has everyone l know.I don’t know any floating voters.

I know many people who do that, also without any critical thinking. "I vote for this party because our family always voted for this party". Ok, it's your right to do so. But its also your right to break the cycle and decide that this party is shit.

One of several.

One of one, as far as I can tell. A decision taken by a private organisation, for reasons that they do not seem to have made public, in a 99% White British town. https://www.citypopulation.de/en/uk/northeastengland/admin/county_durham/E04010591__barnard_castle/

Not exactly the Great Replacement, is it?

Totally incorrect.

Many employers do insist that you take some of your annual leave, over Christmas, which is a Christian festival, and not relevant in any way to alot of people.

In my last contract it was stated: five of your annual leave days must be taken during these dates of the Christmas holidays.

October to January is four months.

The 1st October to the 31st January is four months.

Some posters wrote on here that the UK is a Christian country

How exactly is the UK a Christian country when less than 50 % of people in the UK marked themselves as Christian in the last census?

I've met Christians like that before, they think they are the only religion that exists, they call the UK a Christian country.

And they seem to think that Christmas is sinply a time of year like summer, that every human beeing elebrates.

When it's not a time of year, its a religious festival - that only Christians celebrate.

A lot of people don't celebrate Christmas at all

You're right, and I agree with you. I wasn't trying to minimise it, I suppose I was trying to explain it in a more palatable way to someone who clearly does see it as a zero sum game.
I live in one of these areas, it's still going on and we have two teenage dds so I get it, I really do.

You said there was an obvious open borders policy. There isn’t. I read all I needed to know now you were fairly lacking in knowledge. Rwanda was never going to happen and in any case was a reciprocal agreement to accept vulnerable refugees from Rwanda in return.
There is not now and neither has there ever been an open borders policy.

I would've divorced him for voting Reform tbh.

I know loads of people who've changed parties.

It's about what the politicians are proposing at the time of election.

Why would you just constantly vote for the same party every election, without checking what they are proposing to do first

But isn't the point of democracy:

That people have the right to vote, and that people can vote for whoever they want?

If my partner vote for Reform I'd put their clothes outside the door and change the locks. (Luckily they have more sense than vote for that bunch of racists).