To ask if you think the Olympic boxers are male?

[ArabellaScott]

The finals for both boxers are tonight and tomorrow.

I'm curious to hear whether people think they are females with a DSD, or males with a DSD.

YABU - they're female
YANBU - they're male

For those extolling the virtues of the IOC, you might want to read The Lords of the Rings by Andrew Jennings.

Quite the eye opener shall we say.

What a ridiculous comparison.

Have you heard of logical fallacies? No one has said this. I and others have just highlighted that there are serious issues with the claims made.by the IBA.

What serious issues? The WBO AND the EBC are also saying these boxers are male.

Two independent WADA and CAS accredited labs are saying the boxers are both male.

They didn't appeal to the CAS after being banned from competing. Why wouldn't they appeal if as you say they have passed other tests and you believe there are serious issues with these tests?

Heard of Occam's razor?

I agree.

It won't stop me pointing it out, though.

I do believe some people almost can't help prioritising men in their thoughts. Clearly, otherwise we wouldn't live in the sexist society we do.

So, like you say, maybe some 'blunt descriptions' can open eyes.

What a ridiculous comparison.

It's intended to get to the heart of the matter, is a passport suitable to confirm eligibility for the female category of a dangerous contact sport?

I'd also wager she's got some inside knowledge/opinion access that we don't.

The replies to her have been appalling

Yet you are not showing anything like the outpouring of sympathy you feel for Khelif to the poor women who the IOC refuse to safeguard. Have you asked yourself why?

I'd also wager she's got some inside knowledge/opinion access that we don't.

Me too. She's been over in Paris at some point I think.

Wow, you're taking the daily mail as a source?! 😂😂😂

I think that's the source of some of the utter rage at her from the hashtag bekind-ers.

You cannot be serious? If you apply for something that that has entry requirements you need to prove you meet those whether it's sports or government benefits or a discounted bus ticket fgs. 'Trust me, bro' isn't going to cut it.

I'm not serious @Caerulea it's an analogy

That's exactly the point being made.

No. A lot of people do tho.

But, there are also a lot of people who seem to go to the moon and back to extend fairness, credulity, doubt, etc to the males in this scenario. The brain power, thoughts, writings, comments, empathy - very much centred around the males.

So much so that there's a bloody hell of a lot of women who are totally unsurprised by this latest debacle.

Never have I claimed that I believe these individuals' participation in female sports should not be reviewed or reconsidered. I categorically believe that men have no place is women's sports. In the case of trans women (i.e. biological males), it is easy to call them out as male and to challenge their inclusion in women's sports. In a case like Semenya, it is easy also to have such a discussion- since this is an individual who themselves acknowledge they are "a different type of woman", and who has refused to comply with measures that would promote a degree of equity in their sport, while diminishing the biologic advantage their DSD afford them. The case of Khelif is vastly different for reasons I have outlined already in this thread, and that I'm getting quite exhausted repeating. I just wanted it to be known that I do not support male's participation in female sports under no circumstances.

If it was proved that Khelif has the same DSD as Semanya would you agree that Khelif should not fight in the female category?

Yes.

But while calling her female (with a DSD) for as long as she considered herself so.

And I am getting quite exhausted in repeating that your attempting to splice this as being different to discussing any male with a pubertal advantage.

You are also intensely focused on Khelif. What about Lin?

You position is immensely inconsistent. That is why posters are trying to tell you this.

That is absolutely fine. Everyone has inconsistent views about something. Plus you consistently ignore the female athletes being harmed right now.

No, I am saying EVEN the Mail is not going for this. A previous poster used TASS as a source.

Here's some other outlets: https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-russia-disinformation-khelif-paris-cdabb2945ec9a80f72cb41a48a51d277

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2024/08/05/umar-kremlev-olympic-boxing/

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/paris-2024-summer-olympics/how-russia-uses-ai-to-fuel-anti-lgbtq-hate-against-boxer-imane-khelif-and-to-undermine-paris-olympics/5676266/

And all the female athletes, that you are ignoring. What would you say to them? Sorry, I chose to ignore the evidence that the IBA collected and supported these male people punching you and taking your places until 'I' was satisfied that they should be excluded?

I doubt Khelif is reading the thread, Think we can probably chill about the potential upset of an honest discussion using precise language.

Very simply, because what would be the point? The IBA are not going to admit wrongdoing.

This.

Let's not pretend language doesn't matter. Serena Williams and Fatima Whitebread might have a thing or two to say in response to you..

I wish people would leave her alone. Sure, she's got more testosterone and xy chromosomes but what are you meant to categorise her as? A freak of nature rendering her neither male nor female? How cruel. She has the lady organs I believe and is a female. It's not as if she's in there smashing fuck out of every opponent and she's lost plenty to women in the past.