To ask if you think the Olympic boxers are male?

[ArabellaScott]

The finals for both boxers are tonight and tomorrow.

I'm curious to hear whether people think they are females with a DSD, or males with a DSD.

YABU - they're female
YANBU - they're male

If Khelif was ever to arrive publicly at this realisation, and if we were privy to details of her medical history which confirm everyone's suspicions, then I might be less bothered by these personal attacks on her. Until then, I'd say it's fair to exercise restrain and kindess when discussing her case.

What I struggle with is your excess of empathy for Khelif yet seemingly no concern at all for the women that the IOC are putting in the dangerous position of being beaten up my men.

As someone else pointed out, in any other situation it would be illegal.

Does anyone on this thread think that Khelif is XX female, it's all lies? I'm curious.

Why should any female athlete be kind when they are being harmed by this male athlete?

Do you think that those female athletes will either get their full health back if they are injured, or will get back those opportunities lost with this male athlete's inclusion?

Seriously, why are you centring a male athlete? One who if the IBA was still organising the IOC would have been excluded from competing?

And by the way, do you believe that neither of these athletes not know that they are a male athlete? What responsibly have you absolved both of them for respecting the safety of female athletes here? Isn't that rather infantilising?

@WomaninBoots

I'm not a geneticist but 45X/46XY or 46XX/46XY would be possibilities, both of which can present wildly differently in terms of phenotype depending on the mosaicism. Khelif would likely be tall for those karyotypes but, again, depends on the mosaicism.

I'm not trying to diagnose her, however. The point is karyotyping is complex, something entirely missed on this thread. At no point has Khelif been stated to be 46XY.

You are right it has never been stated therefore on the grounds of safety and inclusiveness it should be tested and proven before either boxer gets into a ring with another woman ever again.

The IBA have said that there was also an advantage due to testosterone, although that wasn't in the 2 tests they carried out.

I don't believe elite athletes should have the right to conceal their sex from opponents. It's not just about them. Just like there is no expectation of privacy, they know they might have to pee into a cup in front of someone, because preventing cheating is important. Competitors are weighed and a few grams over means you get disqualified, as happened to another boxer today.

Perhaps people's weight is a privacy issue too?

To the naked eye - or more specifically to my eye - they both look clearly male.

The situation has arisen because the world championships last year was run under the auspices of the International Boxing Association, whose president, Umar Kremlev, told the Russian news agency, Tass, that DNA tests had “proved they had XY chromosomes and were thus excluded from the sports events”.

Boxers who failed gender tests at world championships cleared to compete at Olympics | Paris Olympic Games 2024 | The Guardian

That seems pretty straightforward.

I have no idea because I don't know if they are XX or XY. I do think the Algerian looked like a girl when she was small but looks very masculine now.

But people used to slag off Fatima Whitbread back in the day. Some women do look quite masculine.

Unless they do a cheek swab and the result is made public, we'll never know.

I agree.

When a female boxer gives consent to box another female boxer, any male boxers are not included in that consent.

No matter what their history, it is the material reality of their body.

No female boxer has given consent explicitly to box a male who has gone through a virilised puberty. That should be the end of it. But the IOC has been incredibly negligent.

I have no idea because I don't know if they are XX or XY. I do think the Algerian looked like a girl when she was small but looks very masculine now.

They've been tested before the Olympics. They are XY. Only elaborate conspiracy theories deny this. Independent labs were used for the tests.

There has been no evidence that they are anything other than women. The IOC has been clear on this. The only organisation to say otherwise, has been disgraced and kicked dout of lots of international bodies for known corruption. They also only cast doubt on these two women's sex AFTER they had already competed in multiple matches.

YABU to jump on a Russian backed disinformation campaign designed to sew division and make people angry. Yikes!

This is simply not true. The IBA are also known to be politely put 'dodgy'.

TASS is a propaganda machine. The IBA is a Russian-funded organisation that has been disgraced and kicked out of multiple sporting bodies for widespread corruption.

The situation is a farce. The organisations are bickering, the public are bickering, sportspeople are bickering.

Test every single sports competitor as part of their "license to compete", give them a "passport for eligibility" for whichever sex they are eligible to compete amongst and that's that. Once in their lives, over and done with.

For those who have a genetic condition that means the odds of them qualifying to compete with their own sex are bad, that's sad. Injury can also end careers. Illness can also end careers. Life is tough and sometimes even amazingly talented and hard working athletes don't get selected. Great footballers get dropped from their clubs every day. Dedicated cyclists train for years yet don't make the grade at top level. My friends son's cycling career was ended by glandular fever. Over. Totally over. Dropped, replaced, forgotten.

This whole farce is down to bickering governing bodies, emotional manipulation on an epic scale and frankly, an awful lot of easily manipulated and unquestioning people.

There has been no evidence that they are anything other than women. The IOC has been clear on this.

The IOC also has a history of corruption, and they have no basis for their disagreement as they just accepted that Khelif and Yu Ting have female on their passports.

The IBA tested the two boxers, sent the sample to independent labs and the results came back XY. Twice.

Please read the thread.

Three boxing organisations have stated that both of these boxers are male.

Three. Not just one.

The IOC has a policy that means that, unless specified for a particular event, if an athlete has 'female' in their passports, they are considered female. Even if that 'female' was an incorrect observation at birth.

Please read further than you obviously so far have. The facts are all out there. In fact, you are now here spreading misinformation. Yikes!

And the IOC has no history of corruption?

If you are going to discount one group because of corruption, please be even handed.

The IOC themselves made it quite clear that it is a "DSD case" by slipping up in a statement they made in a press conference and having to issue a correction on Twitter.

Why are you continuing to spread deliberate misinformation? The women have both past eligibility tests.

Nicola Adams OBE has bravely spoken out even though she knew she would get a ton of abuse, which she has. I've seen racist, misogynistic, homophobic abuse towards her from the self declared #bekind brigade.

She clearly thinks the boxers are male and it is being covered up, and everyone is being gaslighted.

Are you saying that the labs which are certified and accredited to international standards are lying?

Or are you saying that three boxing organisations are lying?

Or are you saying the Dr. Ioannis Filippatos is lying?

Or are you saying that you have not realised that the IOC has been directly caught lying about 'knowing' when they were officially notified with the laboratory reports sent to them and they even confirmed receipt, yet declare that they knew nothing about the tests?

If Dr. Ioannis Filippatos is lying, he should be deregistered from practising IVF and surgery. Because that would be hugely negligent.

Why are you continuing to spread deliberate misinformation? The women have both past eligibility tests.

No these 2 male boxers have not. The IOC don't believe in testing. So why are you attempting to spread deliberate misinformation exactly?

I don't give a flying fruitcake. The IOC's Paris 2024 Boxing Unit have hardly covered themselves in glory.

They are still clearly both male, regardless of what sex they were raised, etc.