To ask if you think the Olympic boxers are male?

[ArabellaScott]

The finals for both boxers are tonight and tomorrow.

I'm curious to hear whether people think they are females with a DSD, or males with a DSD.

YABU - they're female
YANBU - they're male

Can I correct an earlier statement from another poster who said that “almost 2% of the world’s population is intersex”.

This figure has been debunked. It was only achieved by including conditions such as “micro penis” which are obviously not true DSDs.

The actual figure is 0.018%, which makes it all the more remarkable that AT LEAST 5 known athletes with DSDs have made it to the Olympics in the last 8 years. It’s also highly likely that there are more that we’ve not been made aware of (Sharron Davies has said she’s been told by athletes that there are suspicions around others competing in strength sports in Paris). The travesty now is that the finger of suspicion will be pointed at any competitor who may be considered as gender non conforming, or not meeting sex stereotypes.

So are the births registered but certificates aren't issued but can be ordered at such point as they are needed?

@CaveMum I believe to reach that percentage they included absolutely every slight difference of genital development so things that are common like undescended testes and slightly less common like hypospadias.

I don't have reason to disbelieve that he was believed female in his early life. I do have reason to disbelieve he had no idea he wasn't until last week. Or even last year.

I think they also included PCOS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intersex_Olympians#:~:text=The%201932%20Summer%20Olympics%20was,competed%20in%20athletics%2C%20generally%20running.

This is very useful for a list of people with DSD who are known to have competed at the Olympics.

It is quite possible that there are many more unknown since sex testing was got rid of.

Especially interesting is the proportion of females to males

Males

you have used a derogative slur, anti-trans, to describe MN and I take it you also mean posters on this thread.

Female with dsd.

Khelif is through to the final.

I want this too

The average height of an Algerian man is 5ft 7 . In comparison, the average height of an Algerian woman is 5 ft 2.5 in and imane is 5ft 7 quell surprise because hes a man

Not surprising that a man beats a woman in boxing but its still a very sad state of affairs

They won't be fighting each other - they're in different weight categories.

So they're stealing 2 women's medals and harming huge number of female boxers.

Thank you for this thread. It's much clearer now.

Not very inclusive weight categories are they?

If only I could identify into a 60kg category.

They are in different weight categories.

I wonder if the IOC accepted a self reported weight to determine which weight category they were eligible to compete in?

So what's your point? What are you arguing about?

What female DSD do you think fits the facts of this case?

I think there was a huge amount of due diligence that wasn't done before the definitive reporting and positions were ser-out.
From both sides.

I wouldn't trust the IBA as far as I could throw them, and they tested the athletes a year before the failed test and allowed them to continue competing, then they fail a test mid way through a tournament and the details are shrouded in secrecy.

Equally the IOC are no fucking beacon of truth.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out they're men, but equally I wouldn't bat an eyelid if it turned out to be IBA corruption.

The IBA have explained that they need to confirm the results of the first test but couldn't retest until the boxers were back under their jurisdiction e.g. the next international tournament they took part in. Which is exactly what they did.

Why do you think the IBA would lie about these two particular boxers? The Russian theory leaks like a sieve so why discredit one fighter but not the other one from the same country if it political?

Sorry OP-Your question is unreasonable and frankly shows a level of misunderstanding about sex.
The individuals who have been the centre of the controversy are neither male or female- they are intersex.
They do not solely fit either category.
People who are intersex may have chromosomes that do not match their outward presentation (what their bits look like or how their body appears) or may have chromosomes which are neither XX or XY. They may have naturally elevated levels of testosterone which give them a physical advantage over a component and make them more dangerous in these particular sports.

If your question was instead “should they be competing in a female category with females (natural women)?” -then my opinion is: no they should not. They have an unfair natural advantage that is not sporting and poses a physical risk to females. Whilst this is a shame for them after years of training, safety must come first.

It’s important that people understand that these sportspeople are not trans, intersex is entirely different.

All Olympic boxing gold medallists are being awarded $100 000. $50 000 to the boxer, $25 000 to the coach, $25 000 to their national sporting federation. What an added incentive for corruption. Given that many of the actually female boxers are from poorer countries, it's an absolutely travesty.

Have you not read the numerous other threads here about this? Nobody thinks they’re trans. We assume they have DSDs. People with DSDs are still male or female.