To find this H comment annoying

[Ginge88]

If I forget something or use the wrong plug or something, DH says loudly

"And the 356th way Ginge has fucked up today is...."

Or whatever number is in his head. Frustrating thing is I actually don't mess up things v much and it's him that needs reminders of everything

But yes if he notices says the milk is left out or something il hear him say "and Ginge succeeds in fucking up for the 455th time this week" and chuckling to himself

I've told him to stop. He tells me it's a joke. He does now do it less but he clearly thinks I'm being totally over sensitive

Am I?

Your last message wasn’t there when I was typing mine. Seems they will be better away and custody is not always 50 50. That’s why you need recordings of his abuse. You need a recorder in the bedroom when he’s putting them to bed , or on his own with them. For the things he says to you. The judge also talks to the children and takes their views into account.

I have never been in this situation and I feel really sorry for you, but you really need to stop making excuses and just leave. It will never be a good time to do it and I'm worried you'll end up back here next Christmas still saying the same things.

On a lighter note, if you leave now at least you don't have to get him anything for Christmas!

Good advice but I would not advise ever doung anything that involves miney. Just a statement of facts “FYI :date of nativity play. Link to info.” Thats it. Done and dusted.

Think of yourself as acting as your child’s social secretary—not your ex’s. You notify him like someone putting out an invitation. But you are not hosting him or taking on any of the work to get him to the event or make the event good for him. Especially do not make any offers that will inconvenience you like buying tickets or checking train times or arranging events fir him.

Recording another person secretly may not be legal. This is bad advice.

Journalists do it all the time and make programmes showing the recordings with video and sound, ..they’ve outed bent politicians with such traps

Nanny cams have been set to catch abusers , too

I can't do it now its xmas. But I've got legal advice now. I've put the kids passports in my locker at work. I could take them to an airbnb if things kicked off. So im ready in january. I just have to be brave

I do understand why you don't want to leave until after Christmas, but I'm concerned that when January comes around, you will still be here and will still be listing the awful things he does and will still be coming up with reasons why you 'can't' leave him yet. Please, please set an actual date to aim for when you are going to leave.

You also need to stop ruminating over what will happen if he wants 50-50 custody. Yes, he might be a shit dad during the 50% of time that's with your children. But that's better than him being a shit dad during the 100% of time that he's with them now. If they have a 50-50 arrangement (which he might not even want, let alone get) then your children are, at least, going to have a home life that is healthy and normal for 50% of the time. At the moment, they have home life that is healthy and normal for 0% of the time because they live full time with a father who abuses their mother in front of them all day and every day. Your children may not benefit from being with him 50% of the time but they probably will benefit from being without him 50% of the time. A split is still the best decision you could make for them.

Just read through, and what a thread! OP your husband sounds like a nasty and vindictive bully. It may well be coming from low self esteem but he has no right to treat you like this. I am so pleased that you have made the decision to leave him, and are feeling happy about the future for you (own space / own bed etc).

What did solicitor say about the house and split? I would say that you shouldn't leave the house and rent somewhere, my solicitor told me to stay put when getting a divorce and wait it out.

It will be difficult when H has the kids, no doubt, but I can't imagine he will want to do 50/50 long term. especially when he realises how hard work it is and everything you did to keep the house going. In terms of co-parenting and managing that relationship maybe try using an app rather than communication face to face and via email / WhatsApp. I used one that had a diary and a word limited notes / comms section to pass messages. If he does have 50/50 he will need to get access to the school newsletters etc and keep on top of things, on the days you don't have the kids you leave him to it. The less contact the better.

Keep going and being strong

I’ve been following your thread since you started it and I’m also concerned about the excuses. Kindly OP, you need to stop dithering. He is damaging the children with his abusive behaviour. They are afraid of him and his outbursts.

You are worried that they will want to be with him because he does fun things with them. From what you’ve written, I’m pretty sure that he does these things to wind you up. I think a lot of what he does is specifically to wind you up. Once you’re not there, he won’t have any reason to keep doing that. He’s too lazy to bother if he’s not getting the thrill of upsetting you.

You’re worried about 50/50 custody. He is a lazy, workshy manchild. He will go for 50/50 to wind you up, because that is what he loves doing. And then within 6 months or a year he won’t want to put in the work and you will have them more.

The biggest thing that you should be worried about is the fact that every single day is another day of your sons seeing and internalizing the idea that this is how men treat women. All the time dragging on is increasing the chances that they will replicate this behaviour in their own relationships when they are older. The shouting, the name-calling, the insults, the put downs, the nasty condescension, the misogyny. They cannot keep witnessing this. Even if he ends up in another unhealthy relationship, the important thing is that your sons saw their mother refuse to tolerate that treatment.

You can do this. You have to be strong, and you have to get them out of this toxic environment so they don’t end up the same way. Regardless of what happens, you won’t regret getting yourself and your children out of this abusive relationship.

Chance of him doing 5050 is pretty much nil though isn't it. It's not going to happen.

Look to the future, where all of the time when they are just with you is wonderful, relaxed, kind, fun... no nastiness at all.

I think then, the time they do spend with him will not be so awful as he won't be purposely making it awful to punish you, as he is almost certainly doing now.

@Ginge88 there are co-parenting apps which can be used for all communication about children. A friend of mine left her abusive husband a year or so ago and, because of his coercive control, all communications had to go through one of these. It meant she could block him everywhere else and there was a record of all comms.

*edited to add the app was court-ordered. You can use them without a court order, though.

Thanks for the frankness guys. I needed to hear that. I'm going to do it. No more excuses. No more seeking sympathy off mumsnetters without doing anything about it. 💪

What isn't uncommon though, are men asking for 50/50 and then outsourcing parenting during their time with grandparents or nannies as a way to punish the mother for divorce. I don't know how likely it is this man would do it but OPs fears seem reasonable to me. Not reasons to not proceed but understandable concerns to discuss with professionals.

Sorry OP, I've only actually read your posts, and not what responses you have received, but one thing that sticks out to me, is what you said about when you were a child, walking on eggshells, in order not to upset your Father. This has obviously stuck with you, and yet you're now subjecting your own kids to this. Why wait until January to leave, it's hardly as if you're likely to have a 'Happy Christmas', is it? I know it takes time, and courage to end a relationship like this, but trust me, you are doing your boys no favours whatsoever by staying. Why do you keep focusing on them having to spend 50% of the time with your 'H', when you leave, why not focus on how great it will be to have your boys 50% of the time with no stress, no walking on eggshells, no seeing them hide under the table because daddy's shouting and scaring them?

In reality, what will happen if you stand up to this pig? Will he hit you? Is that why you've never really stood up to him? When did he start to treat you like this, has it always been this way, and possibly you've put up with it because you watched your own DM put up with the same? Women's lives CAN be different these days! My own DM put up with the same sort of behaviour, but the reason was, that there was no support for a married woman who left her husband in those days, but things ARE different now OP! There is support out there for you! You're already in a far better situation than your Mum probably was when you were growing up, in that you're the one with the bigger income. So STOP putting up with this SHIT!! It's time to put a stop to it once and for all, and get your boys away from this waste of space pig of a man.

Other posters are right too, in as much as he's a lazy bastard, and once you've gone, and the novelty of having the boys 50% of the time, just to piss you off, wears off, and he realises that it's actually hard work to parent on your own, you'll soon find him coming up with excuses as to why he can't have them this week, etc.

JUST DO IT OP!!

Thank you @MadnessIsMyMiddleName

He is an utter "waste of space pig of a man" !! Will be using that one!

And he is being particularly awful right now in front of the kids. No shouting but slow clapping when I'm fixing the kids lego and saying some of the most misogynistic and nasty stuff about my career as a "joke"

I feel deep shame and guilt that somehow I committed myself to this man. It's baffling to me. What the fuck was I thinking? He's horrible. Truly horrible.

Sorry. Not complaining. No excuses. Just unloading!

Just read this whole thread OP. How awful and what a tiny sad man he must be that he needs so badly to demean you. Please get away from him! He sounds like a total Andrew Tate fuckhead and so goddamn thick, which you clearly are not. Ugh.

@Ginge88 when he does the slow hand clapping etc take notes in front of him. Note time date etc and what he did.

I think a nanny cam would be a great idea to record him abusing you and the children.

You can then tell him you will be sending it to family and friends to explain why you left, after you have left.
Tell him you will send it to his work place.

Scum like him hate people knowing what abusive pieces of shit they are.

Go. Just go as fast as you can. And while you are doing it point at him and laugh. What a craptacular person .Slow clap? Fuck me I will slow clap his ass.

Currently, you are there, earning most of the money, doing all the wife-work and child care and shielding him from the consequences of his actions.

Just imagine, once you leave, his inadequacies will be exposed to the world, well to family and friends at least. Look forward to that moment when the world will see what you see, a pathetic little man with no kindness or empathy. A poor breadwinner, a poor father and a shockingly awful husband.

Yes hide a nanny cam

@Ginge88
Just come across your post.

You're doing great with your plans.

Sending you lots of strength you amazing Woman.

Wow. Nanny cams are like James Bond stuff. Pens, phone chargers. I feel shit doing it. It feels controlling. But I do need to know what's happening when I'm not there to fully understand the risk when he inevitably goes for 50% of overnights.

I saw recently a Netflix doc of domestic abuse which involved secret filming so it must be legal?

I have recordings of him on my phone shouting at me already.

Yes, I saw a documentary, maybe the same one, where the secretly recorded footage was key to getting the abusive partne (a woman in this case) imprisoned. I think it could be a good idea as evidence gathering, but I don't think you should tell him you'll send the footage to family/friends/work when you do leave. It might endanger your safety.

I hope you can set aside the shame and guilt he's loaded you with since they aren't yours to carry but his, and I hope you can get out by Christmas or soon after.

What an arrogant bully of a man. It's telling that he doesn't treat you like this in front of anyone but your MIL. He knows other people would disapprove of the way he speaks to you and he doesn't want to risk looking bad in front of them. It shows he can control his behaviour when it suits him.

Agree with others on documenting the abuse for future custody issues. But be careful he doesn't discover it, for your safety.