My silly comment blew up wider family now dh miserable

[Allwelcone]

So my neice is British/dual national with my sil's country, never lived in UK but loves our culture a lot and bigs up her British-ness at school apparently, which is in a third country.

Over on a recent UK visit, dn made a very British pudding but didn't try any of it as didn't like it (it was a crumble type pud) I said "Oh go on try a bit, I thought you aspired to be British!" This was met with gasps from my teen kids and I said "sorry I've been brought to book there".

My sil has raised it as a big issue and its been used as ammo for them to hate on us basically.

My dh is very unhappy, not sure what I can do? Apologise? Leave it? Back story is sil doesn't seem to like bils family and always seems really sad to be in UK. we do try (e.g lending them our car, lots of hosting, being 100% careful all the time not to offend) but we have never bonded.
Advice appreciated.

in your own words "I have blundered so much with SIL" , which makes me think your remark was just the latest in a long line of similar, casually offensive comments

Every time I visit home, my brother's wife stops talking to me and goes into a major sulk at some point.
That's all on her though. We all ignore it, I certainly wouldn't apologise for someone else having a personality disorder.

Seemed pretty obvious to me it was a cultural comment, not a racist one.

There are different shades of racism. As I said, it's not just burning mosques.

It is also bias, conscious or not. If you are looking to employ someone and interview Mr Smith, Mr Kowalski, Mr Carluccio, Mr Bjornsson and Mr Ahmed and even before the interview you pay a lot more attention to Mr Smith's CV just because of his last name.

You can be racist by not considering a British person British because they are mixed race. You can be racist to your family members by thinking that if you read a book by an author 'from a neighbour country' (in the OP) to theirs they should be grateful of the amazing effort you did, because supposedly all of them countries next to each other are a bit samey.

Yes, OP is not a thug smashing up streets and no one says she is, but it does not mean her attitude to her family is fine. It showed a very deeply rooted casual racism that many people also experience every day and which she must have been showing for years without realising to the point when DBils family dont want to engage with her anymore. And since she clocked in maybe this has been an issue all those years, maybe it will help her repair her relationship with the family if it is not too late.

Honestly I think you're projecting/creating a scenario in your own head. It could just as likely be a difficult, oversensitive inlaw.

What an interesting discussion!
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned (but I feel is relevant as the DN is growing up in the US) is that in the US people in general do refer to themselves as ”Italian / Swedish / Irish / Nigerian” if that’s their heritage, even through grandparents.

Partly this would explain the ”big up”: ing of Englishness, which is an odd an offensive way of describing it (as in school, for example, they may be asked to come dressed / bring treats / music / whatever typical to their heritage…) and partly I think this is important to consider for those who think that you can only be ”culturally x” if you’ve actually LIVED in x country.

In addition, the ”code switching” is not hilarious, it shows that DN can navigate both / all cultures and (un)consciously tries to do just that.

Describing someone as “aspiring to be” is very different from saying “embracing” - if you meant one but said the other you can’t exactly be confused why people took you to mean what you actually said rather than what you intended to say - especially as they (unlike us) have context.

And yes - by describing DN as “aspiring to be” you implied (with your actual words) that she is in fact not.

If you are aspiring to be kind, apologize for what you actually said, not “sorry you were offended”.

(And for those keeping stats: triple heritage family, background in three countries, found this offensive.)

You can be racist by not considering a British person British because they are mixed race

Op made her comment because the niece has never lived in the UK not because she's mixed race, fuck me.

When I go to my other parent's country, people (including family) call me white girl lmao, and why should they see me as the same as them? I don't share their culture, only blood. They're still the most welcoming and generous people.

OP is clearly not as welcoming to her family as your folks are sadly. Your own perception of who you are does not mean that everyone else should feel the same about themselves. You dont feel you belong to culture X but the niece feels British- but is not British enough for her aunt.

But also, who makes a passive aggressive little jab at the niece because her mother didnt want to eat strawberries a few days before...

At any rate, the bit you highlighted was just an example of general racist behaviour that is racist nevertheless but does not include vandalising streets.

This!
For some reason, some people find it difficult to comprehend that their experience doesn’t mirror everyone’s experience.

”I always feel welcome at my in-laws” -> ”people who don’t, are too sensitive and have their noses out of joint”

As if it isn’t possible that people are actually treated differently.

In addition, while there is no measuring scale for emotions / offensiveness / racism, it could be argued that it might be more hurtful to be on the receiving end of a racist comment from a familymember than watching people you don’t know rioting in streets you don’t walk.

I’m NOT saying these are equally dangerous situations, or one more wrong, it’s just that ”casual racism” shouldn’t be tolerated because ”at least it doesn’t cause or threaten physical harm”.

Agree.

I notice that one big issue here in the UK is ignoring casual, covert racism and arguing it isn’t a problem because overt racism is so much worse.

Both are still racism regardless and affect people in small and big ways.

There’s also a few posters making out that certain groups are monolithic so if it doesn’t offend one, it doesn’t offend all so the one must be overly sensitive.

OP obviously has her own views that she has about what makes one British which even this thread has shown differs from what other posters perceive it as and has used those views against her dn, a child. She says her SIL is supposedly difficult yet hasn’t said she has actually tried having a discussion with her SIL about things other then seeing SIL as rude because she doesn’t do what is polite or what OP considered British by her standards.

As other pp have pointed out, her own children found issue with what she said and her remark was not only senseless but unnecessary.

My own MIL made a racist remark about a minority group which made everyone go silent and BIL spoke up and told her it wasn’t on and it brought up all the previous comments she made before where I had previously thought it was based on not liking a certain cuisine, not that she had issue with the group themselves. Her reason was something she saw years ago that annoyed her that had nothing to do with her. Once it was pointed out how ridiculous she was being she stopped from what I’ve seen and even said something to FIL when he said a slur that I didn’t even know existed.

I notice that one big issue here in the UK is ignoring casual, covert racism and arguing it isn’t a problem because overt racism is so much worse..

The UK is one of the least racist countries in the world, although you wouldn't think so with all the left wing self loathing that goes on.
Sadly no country is a racism-free utopia.

The UK is one of the least racist countries in the world.
Lol

My husband works very hard to pass on his language and culture to our kids while we live in a different country. If my SIL had made such a comment about my child I’d think she’s a xenophobic c*nt. The child in question being mixed race makes it even worse….

I do not believe for a second that an otherwise reasonable person would make such a comment in error and not immediately want the ground to swallow them up. Would love to hear the SIL’s side of the whole story. I’m willing to bet that what op considers “walking on eggshells” is just reining in a generally unpleasant character.

@BeachParty wheredo you believe has less racism issues, out of interest?

Your last sentence appears to suggest that I am racist, which is unacceptable as well as ludicrous.

No, I don't consider that a British person should have to like every single 'bloody' British dish and no, I don't eat a full English every day .

I read her comment as a light-hearted remark about how crumble type puddings are representative of an aspect of British culture, in the context of knowing that her niece a) had made (deliberately, one assumes) a very traditional British pudding and b) she is someone who 'bigs up her British-ness' and likes to emphasise her British side.

Since when is making a 'silly' comment such a big deal?

And I think you're being deliberately obtuse. Yes, of course many Brits prefer a curry to a roast. And of course the UK is bursting with different cuisines. But it's also patently obvious that a crumble is a traditionally British pudding; and in that context, and given that the OP's niece deliberately embraces Britishness (not least by having made this pudding), it's a perfectly sensible comment to have made.

The fact your DC gasped suggests it’s not just that your SIL is over sensitive. The fact you said something to the effect of I’ve been brought to book was odd as in why not just say oh sorry that came out wrong what I meant was…
You refer to making many blunders with your SIL and reading books so as to be able to understand her experience. I’m not sure why it is all so complicated. Don’t you talk to your SIL and DN like you talk to other people? It sounds like you perhaps make micro comments that emphasise difference. It might be an idea to read books on why you do this and how to change. Best wishes

it's a perfectly sensible comment to have made.

What's sensible about asking a British person if they aspire to be British?

Why should she like crumble just because she's British?

You can't be British and aspire to be British at the same time. At worst you were offensive, at best ridiculous. Just apologise and try not to say stupid things going forward.

If someone is determined to find something to be offended about you’ll never stop them.

Seriously, this is so unbelievably uptight, how do you people cope.

Ime teens aren't necessarily good judges. They're so worried about how things look/what people are thinking. Rather than what really matters. Ignore them.

Ask your niece. "Did I upset you?" Go from there.

To answer your question OP, if you offend someone, its not necessarily appropriate to apologise. In the case of your niece, and as offence was not intended, it may be worth clarifying. It sounds to me like you've tried too hard with your SIL.

There isn't a racism free country out there. Which does not make UK some sort of heaven either, just because the situation is somewhat better than in some other places.

I kind of think that most of the time when people claim there is little racism in the UK, the speaker is a white British person who would not come across racism really anyways, so it's very easy to think people who experience racism exaggerate.

Why do you think a person who is embracing British culture needs to love EVERTHING about it?
Could she still be British if she did not like fish and chips? Is there a tick box of dishes she needs to enjoy to satisfy her aunt and get the approval she had a right to call herself British? If she is vegetarian would she still have to eat a full English one a week? Or she can't embrace British culture after all?

Curious as to how you’ve reached that conclusion? Based on what?

Where did I say it was the most or least? I spoke of overt and covert racism which several posters don’t seem to know the difference or have used overt racism as the only type of racism that matters.

I agree there is no country that is racism-free but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t any issues whether covert or overt.