Dressage WTF

[OrkneyGirl]

I have just been watching Olympic dressage...a poor horse moving its hooves in time to 'Another one bites the dust'...surely this is done for human entertainment only. The horse wouldn't do this naturally. Commentator saying the horse 'clearly loves moving to the beat'. What a load of crap. Years of making the horse move unnaturally. Probably with a stick or whip. AIBU that this sport is about privileged humans dominating a beautiful animal. Makes me so sad...and angry!

Looking at your further comments on this post, it looks like you have more of an issue with the idea that equestrianism is “for posh people” than that it’s somehow detrimental to horses.

Most equestrians would die for their horses, get up at the arse crack of dawn in every weather to care for them and pour every last penny into making sure they’re happy and healthy.

There’s a lot wrong with the dressage world but don’t comment on things you clearly do not understand.

Don’t like it? Don’t watch it.

I really like him. I saw him at a show recently and his horses were wandering off and grazing when he didn’t need them, having a little graze when he asked them to lay down. I don’t know how he trains them obviously - but the horses seem to have a lot of freedom to express themselves

Clearly never owned or been around horses then. They absolutely do this in a field, of their own choice. I've had several that have (and no, I'm not a rich privileged person)

These are all movements they will do at liberty to some degree

It isn't though. Horse racing is natural only in that horses are herd animals and will run with the herd, but the relentless whipping by the jockeys is appalling...and don't get me started on the number of horses who die hideously with broken limbs and necks, how unnaturally they're kept (constantly stabled...most race horses I've known are completely mentally shut down as a result) and discarded if not making the grade. If any equine sport needs banning, it's this one

It's interesting how a lot of this thread seems to actually be bitterness towards people perceived to be posh and privileged.

It's been said a few times but doesn't seem to be sinking in, so: spend a bit of time watching horses in a field and then tell us it is unnatural to ask them to do a pirouette/piaffe/extended trot/half-pass etc.

Yes, some people abuse horses. Charlotte Dujardin has rightly been punished for her 'methods', which are indefensible. Rollkur is banned at the Olympics and generally frowned on. I've heard about at least two riders being suspended in this Olympics because vet checks deemed their horses to have been suffering (NB one of these IIRC is possibly not a reflection on rider behaviour; the other probably is).

Also, anyone remember the incident at the Tokyo Olympics when a female pentathlon athlete could not make her horse (a 'pool' horse; they don't bring their own) go for love nor money? Granted, the horse was not happy, going by its behaviour; but it demonstrates clearly that it is is very hard to make a horse listen to you and do anything if it doesn't want to.

Why do you keep claiming that horse owners are rich? I'm on minimum wage and have a horse, I've had horses since I left school and worked to keep them. I am not rich.

That ended with the horse getting punched by the coach after being kicked and hit very hard, repeatedly by the rider.

Not a great advert for horses at the olympics.

I am surprised OrkneyGirl has not seen Shetland Stallions strutting around Mares when they come into season.

You probably noticed there are NO WHIPS used in the competition. The horses that can perform the Grand Prix love the Passage movement. When the horses appear for mounted prize giving, the horses are all passaging of their own accord! Why don't you go to a Dressage Yard and see for yourself the enjoyment the horses derive from the Dressage training. I was a non believer until I saw horses banging the stable door to be asked to be ridden next.
I am guessing your attitude has been skewed by a certain Olympic Dressage rider?

I'd say it wasn't a great advert for how a few people think you can treat horses in the pursuit of sporting success, but a good demonstration of what happens if a horse isn't happy and isn't treated with appropriate understanding, skill and respect.
And IME and going by this thread, as well as the horse world at large, it IS just a few people. Who are rightly censured for it (wasn't the aforementioned coach banned?).

This

How do you know the horses were banging at the door to be ridden next? That's such a human interpretation. You saw what you wanted to see.

What if they were banging on the door due to boredom, frustration, stress, or because they knew it was nearly dinnertime? Horses which are stabled for long periods of time, such as those on elite dressage years, often display behaviour like that because they're not able to express natural equine behavior in a field, with their herd.

I think its as bad as dancing bears. Done purely for human entertainment.

The basic movements of dressage are generally natural. Putting them all together into a routine is not. No horse would actually perform a dressage test spontaneously. I wouldn't say that in itself is an argument against dressage. Some horses are very happy with and responsive to training. However, the lengths to which certain riders/trainers go to force horses to do what they want are horrific. Look at the blue tongues, the horses whose sides are scarred from the use of spurs. Charlotte Dujardin is, alas, not just one bad apple. The dressage world includes many people who abuse their horses as a matter of course. This isn't limited to dressage, either. I really hope the Dujardin scandal will be a wake up call for a lot of people in the larger riding community.

All of equestrianism is about maximising the utility of the horse for human pleasure, entertainment or function. This is true of most human-animal relationships, and everyone has a line when it comes to what they consider acceptable. The danger for the animals comes when the humans have an incentive that outweighs their interest in that animal's welfare. Olympic medals, Grand Prix, prestige (and money laundering opportunities) are powerful incentives.

Even at amateur level, the starting point of training isn't "what will make this horse happiest?”, it’s “how can I get it to bend to my will so that I get more enjoyment out of riding it?”. Horse folk have said so, repeatedly, in this thread. I see no-one has answered my question about why you aren't training them with a clicker. You shouldn't need bits, bridles, spurs and whips. Amazing how so many riders can read their horses' minds, and yet can only communicate with force, however mild.

There would be outcry if dolphin tricks became an olympic sport. It would be insane. People and royals have been doing equestrian for a long time, so it seems normal and respectable, but it's quite weird really, in this day and age. Most sports are weird I suppose, when you break them down, but ideally they wouldn't involve non-consenting creatures being forced to participate.

The people posting jolly anecdotes about how their horse once did a backflip unprompted in a field (and extrapolate that they must therefore love being made to do it with a rider on their back), are coming across like total rubes. Either they can't see it, or they don't want to see it, but cruelty is baked into horse sports.

I mean, what exactly is the thought process here?

“Aw look at that horse frolicking in a field, having the time of its life. It looks like it’s dancing! You know what he’d love? To spend most of his time stuck in a stable, to be brought out to do those moves on demand, in a foreign place, with a human on his back and a bit in his mouth. I can’t imagine anything else would make him happier.”

Yes, yes, I know they’ve been bred and raised to do this, and don’t know anything else - but is that really a good argument in favour? Why are they being bred? Who’s it for? Surely no-one can honestly claim it’s for the horses.

I would’ve said you’re being ott but then watching it? Yes, it looks ridiculous.

I completely agree it’s ridiculous to have horses, that can’t consent, involved in any sport. It makes me uncomfortable. How do we know they enjoy it honestly?! I’m sure they are treated well but it just seems cruel to me.

There are a lot of horse owners here trying to make themselves feel better about unnecessarily bullying animals into dancing for entertainment or jumping unnecessarily high fences.
Rich or poor horse owners, it doesn’t matter. The horse isn’t competing by choice.

Agree. I hate horse ‘sports’. The poor horse has no choice in this.

Agreed. They never jump fences left out in the field just for the hell of it, nor do they produce the movements required for dressage except when they are excited, anxious or sexually aroused. And even then in very short bursts. It's a case of just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Why do people try to turn everything into “them and us”? Dressage riders have sponsors generally and very few own the horses they ride. This makes them privileged?? If anybody reading this has attempted dressage, even at low level, you will know that the training takes years of patience and the commands are very subtle. It is an exaggeration of the horses’ natural movements, eg when a new horse is introduced to a group they will all passage and extend naturally to show off. Sure there is always the odd rider whose methods are questionable at best but this happens in any sport. Money and privilege do not equal medal winning talent.

My daughter made me turn it off. I was just about to anyway.

It's ridiculous and doesn't belong in the Olympics. No other sport involves being the best at controlling an animal.

I've no doubt that many of the horses love it and are treated wonderfully. However, there is no way of knowing and, given the abuse that is known about in the sport, it should be banned from the Olympics.

You're not being unreasonable AT ALL. You're being humane and compassionate and what a great world it would be if more were like you (along with myself 😝).
All sports that use animals should be banned and I look forward to, and support, the day that they are which will happen one sweet day.

YABU

Don’t make it about being rich and privileged. That just muddies the water. You’re absolutely right in every other regard however. Anyone who says horses enjoy it is being disingenuous. Although it’s highly likely there actually convinced themselves this is the case. Exactly like people who say dogs enjoy fighting. There’s not much difference in the mentality of these people, one’s just more extreme than the other. It’s just ‘very deliberate’ ignorance in order to justify amusing themselves.