Dressage WTF

[OrkneyGirl]

I have just been watching Olympic dressage...a poor horse moving its hooves in time to 'Another one bites the dust'...surely this is done for human entertainment only. The horse wouldn't do this naturally. Commentator saying the horse 'clearly loves moving to the beat'. What a load of crap. Years of making the horse move unnaturally. Probably with a stick or whip. AIBU that this sport is about privileged humans dominating a beautiful animal. Makes me so sad...and angry!

Exactly. Thank you.

https://www.24horsebehaviors.org/articles

I know what would make it even better though...some cheesy 80s music - just the intro of course because they run so quickly. I wonder what tricks and treats their trainers used. Can't use whips on people. That's cruel.

If you have to put a bit of metal in an animal's mouth so you can pull on it painfully to force compliance, then it's not really an animal joyfully choosing, is it?
You can even buy bigger, more painful bits for horses that won't submit.

Most people would be horrified if dogs or cats were trained by causing pain to their mouths or kicking them in the ribs. But with horses it's ok.

I was just about to say the same. There’s a reason racing horses often have no brakes- they love it! I would never buy an ex race horse as they are nuts haha!

The apology for being goady didn’t last long, eh?

I know...sorry!

Google Hayden Kristal and watch some of her videos on TikTok/insta/FB (whichever you use) and you will see her horses dancing, playing chase and generally acting like giant toddlers. They have never been dressage or race horses. They do it for fun. Because just like humans, animals play by running around and making silly movements with different parts of their bodies (i.e. dancing).

And for goodness sake...don't play any cheesy 90s music nearby or they just won't stop...in fact, it's amazing how they keep to the beat...no, forgive me, I must look very carefully at their gait first then choose the most appropriate tempo...

Okay, but is this supposed to be an argument for or against horse sports?

I like dancing and running around and being silly with my mates, but I don't think I'd enjoy it if I was forced to do it to the extremes of my physical ability, with a rider on my back and my head forced down by a bit in my mouth, for the entertainment of a crowd, in 35 degree heat.

Most people would be horrified if dogs or cats were trained by causing pain to their mouths or kicking them in the ribs. But with horses it's ok

... and then someone will use a head collar for their dog, a no pull harness or a half check collar....
Don't worry, dogs get their fair share of mistreatment!

Personally I like dressage, it's a highly skilled sport. It requires patience and talent from both horse and human.

But as with everything, when money and glory get involved it's downhill from then on.

That’s entirely untrue. A good dressage horse will be much more able to do any job you ask of if because it’s maximised its muscle use. The reason dressage even exists as a discipline is because it was a training technique to engage muscles well and be more effective war horses. whatever your opinion on using horses in war, you cannot deny their fitness and use for a job. They are absolutely able to do other things.

You clearly don’t have the first clue about horses.

Is the lunge whip only used by the bad guys?

A lunge whip very rarely, if ever, actually touches the horse when used correctly. It is swished behind the horse as a signal to move forward more energetically, and to help ask for a change of direction. All this is done on a lunge rein (hence the name lunge whip) which is where the horse is on a very long line and circles round the handler.

I wonder if anyone who is talking about causing pain to the horse's mouth understand equine mouth anatomy and how a bit is positioned? There is a natural gap in the horse's teeth on both sides, and the bit sits in this gap. It can't pull the lips back if correctly positioned as the rear teeth prevent this. And having a bit in their mouths never stopped any horse I've known from eating, even though they shouldn't be sneakily grabbing grass just before a competition (green slobber is frowned upon, especially if the horse decides to wipe it's mouth on your immaculate white breeches lol).

And AGAIN we get the music references from OrkneyGirl. The vast majority of dressage isn't performed to music, that is just one part of top level competition. Before they get to the Musical Freestyle they will have had to do a fixed routine with no music required to qualify.

That’s not what I said. I have absolutely no doubt that any horse trained to this level will do basically anything - that’s the point isn’t it?

I know all the equestrian disciplines have their roots in practical training, but these horses aren’t being asked to do anything else, as we’ve been told repeatedly - they’re bred solely for this purpose and it would be so cruel for them not to get to do what they love so much! They would be bored if they got to play and frolic all day. We’ve been told.

The argument can’t go both ways - either they’re being bred solely for human sport, or they’re not.

I'm not sure why this is even an olympic event, training a horse to prance about, what next dog agility?

But then you could argue why include archery, shooting, cycling, actually nearly any sport.

@Devonbabs
Those are the skills of the person not training an animal to perform to music.

Why does anyone bother with bits at all? I won't ask why there's any need to scare them with whips, as we've been told no-one actually ever hits them or uses whips in a way that the horse finds at all stressful, except for Charlotte Dujardin, and she's been exposed now, hooray!

These horses can't be made to do anything they don't want to, which axiomatically must mean they love it (the prestige of equestrian is definitely not rooted in domination and control of a half tonne beast), so what's the point of all the S&M gear? Just clicker train them to do the moves, jump the jumps, and hold their heads in a vertical position.

Strange isn't it that horses simultaneously love their jobs but also can't be made to do it with positive or force free training?
Wait, you do need to force them with pain in their mouths, pulling their heads to their chests so they struggle to breathe, kicking them in the ribs or hitting them with whips... But you still can't make a horse do anything it doesn't want to

Don't go to the Spanish Riding school of Vienna.

Ever been to a zoo / aquarium? For shame.

Me too. I used to ride, and compete, at grassroots level. Then I saw some of the methods they use to 'train' these poor creatures. The elite riders like to tell us normal mortals that we don't understand and this abuse is perfectly ok in 'expert' hands.
It's as if non- riders don't have the ability to know abuse when they see it. It's utterly abhorrent!

To be fair most zoos and aquariums don't allow people to ride animals or force animals to do tricks anymore.

Most people know better now and know to avoid places abroad that offer dolphin shows or elephant rides etc as we recognise this causes pain and suffering to the animals and is highly unethical.

Anyone starting a thread on here saying they rode elephants on holiday or paid to see dolphins perform tricks would get absolutely roasted.

And as for pp upthread saying the bit can't pull the lips back...it absolutely can! When horses are in pain they open their mouth to try to escape the pressure. So then they are forced to wear tight leather straps to prevent them from doing it. Some bits rotate and put pressure on the tounge or the roof of the mouth. Horses are just either incredibly tolerate or they totally shut down. And often the signs that humans take to be excitement are in fact signs of extreme anxiety

I'd love to know what people think of this guy?

He seems to offer the best of both worlds!

He is a great example in my mind, demonstrating the need for (and gentle, not painful use of) bits on some occasions and not others.