Feminists against sex segregation in sports

[Tandora]

AIBU to share a different perspective on a subject that seems to be almost entirely taken for granted on mumsnet? This is not something I have a definite opinion on myself (although I am against sex testing and I fully support the rights of trans women and women with differences in sex development to compete alongside other women in sporting competitions at all levels).

However I have found it really upsetting the degrading way that people have been speaking recently about top/ elite female athletes; denigrating their sporting prowess, and portraying them as weak, feeble and helpless, particularly in the wake of this boxing match controversy.

I started looking into opinions on the issue, starting with a search on “feminists against sex segregation in sport”. I came across this really interesting article.

AIBU to share?

journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/3150/galley/19983/view/

Fabulous. 👏🏻👏🏻
Spot on.

It reinforces, not challenges gender based oppression.

😁

No, like I said, GC people don't believe in gender. It's like god, or superheroes - not real.

I am so glad you agree that you are being ridiculous and that you are wrong, I think that's the first thing we've agreed on.

😂😂😂😂 at you right now. Muppet!

I bet your PhD is in Gender Studies, amiright?

@Tandora There are some sports where men and women compete fairly against each other ie equitation, because its based on skill, not speed or strength. Hence we don't see Geoff Capes or Usain Bolt competing in the Olympic dressage events.
But for most sports being male gives clear advantages over being female, hence they are segregated by sex. There is no valid reason to rethink this, since it works perfectly well. Until some people decided that a few men's feelings are more important than women's safety, and some people in positions of authority showed themselves to be too cowardly to stand up to them.

Still not going to answer my question about sports then OP?

The type that allow men to do whatever they want by the sound of it.

I'm thinking of all the Sports Scientists looking in having a right larf at this total lack of subject knowledge by the OP who seems to be an expert on FA despite claims to the contrary.

Damn!! Snap! I didn’t read back to see if anyone had answered. I just repeated your answers almost point for point.

Are you deliberately trying to act like a 7yo on a mission to annoy by inanely repeating people's words back? Is your logic so indefensible that you need to emulate small children?

Or that it exists in that some people feel very strongly that they ought to be the opposite sex and prefer to present in a manner typical of that sex, and that's their right and they must be able to do so in peace...but they aren't that sex and never will be, and there are times, like in a boxing ring, where it matters.

People with disorders of sexual development have repeatedly asked trans activists not to involve them in their activism. There is no overlap between people with actual physical disorders and people who pretend to be the opposite sex, whether because of mental distress or for a fetish. The only overlap is the opportunity it allows male athletes with DSDs to lie and cheat their way into women's sport, transactivism having laid the groundwork for destroying women's right to single-sex anything.

I agree your username is an wonderful descriptor (presuming you are a pp who considers themselves
tovbe “gender critical that is..)

🤦🏼‍♀️

Shit is sugar.

For a start there is a huge empirical overlap in the two.

No there isn't. There are a lot of people with gender identities who also identify as having a DSD when they don't have one. All the ones going around saying DSDs are as common as red hair usually. Did you even read the blog I posted? Claire covered that: https://differently-normal.com/2021/10/25/the-invention-of-intersex/

Secondly they undergo many of the same medical treatments.

No they don't. The barbarity of performing surgery on unconsenting children with DSDs is thankfully no longer considered good practice, after a long hard fought campaign y people with DSDs to educate medical professionals as to the damage it has done.

Thirdly they often have common experiences in relation to gender dysphoria , discrimination and exclusion from society.

No they don't. People with DSDs are not excluded from society, their medical issues are private and have no bearing on day to day life. I also suspect your definition of 'discrimination and exclusion' of trans IDing people would differ from mine.

People who try to use other people's rare medical conditions to prop up their self identified gender disgust me.

Gonna answer me?

Actually, I do believe it- that gender is a mix of character/ social stereotypes- like "masculine" and "feminine". But sex is the binary male/female.
Because we got coy about the word sex, it started getting replaced with gender- which it never used to be.
This has confused an awful lot of people into thinking these two things must match.
Like "I want to wear a dress, I must be a woman".
It is trying to set gender stereotypes, that women have fought so hard to get away from- actually into law!

There is no overlap between people with actual physical disorders and people who pretend to be the opposite sex

I wasn’t going to respond to your post because it’s a derail, but this for one is completely false fyi. There are a lot of people with DSDs who are also trans or suffering from gender dysphoria.

Cmon answer titchy

“If you are a so-called “gender critical” feminist, you are part of a movement of people who are destroying feminism because you fail to have a sufficiently sophisticated grasp on definitions of sex and gender and the dynamics of gender based oppression.”

‘Sophisticated grasp on definitions of sex’? what, like male and female? Yeah that blows my mind… two sexes - far too ‘sophisticated’ an idea for me! And gender? Like stereotypes based on pantomime dames and 1950s public information leaflets? Yeah again, you got me. Far toooo sophisticated for my pea sized GC brain.

But you know what though? I understand that the ‘dynamics of gender based oppression’ are about power and if you think transwomen leave their power privilege behind when they adopt whatever mindset leads them to call themselves transwomen, you are deluded and a traitor to feminism.

Women are suffering because of this ideology. Your views are shameful and reckless.

@Tandora I would be interested in your explanation of why being critical of gender means that one reinforces, not challenges, gender based oppression?

It's worth noting that some top class female jockeys won't ride certain male horses in team events though, as the male jockeys have an advantage.

You clearly have no real life knowledge of this topic but I’m not going to engage on it because it’s too exhausting.

the thread is about sex segregation in sports.