Feminists against sex segregation in sports

[Tandora]

AIBU to share a different perspective on a subject that seems to be almost entirely taken for granted on mumsnet? This is not something I have a definite opinion on myself (although I am against sex testing and I fully support the rights of trans women and women with differences in sex development to compete alongside other women in sporting competitions at all levels).

However I have found it really upsetting the degrading way that people have been speaking recently about top/ elite female athletes; denigrating their sporting prowess, and portraying them as weak, feeble and helpless, particularly in the wake of this boxing match controversy.

I started looking into opinions on the issue, starting with a search on “feminists against sex segregation in sport”. I came across this really interesting article.

AIBU to share?

journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/3150/galley/19983/view/

Oh yes I do, and it’s not an appropriate term either. There are far more appropriate labels, but mumsnet censors them it seems.

Op I think you need to learn a lot more about elite sport and so does the author of that article. Having a child who competes in swimming it's very clear that from puberty onwards the boys are much faster then the girls. Their whole body shape changes. This is really clear, and is seen in the times they can make in competitions.

Looking at lots of sports I can see where this would make a clear difference between men and women.

I mean maybe shooting and archery could be a more even playing field. But then archery a man would still have a stronger pull on the bow. Women maybe have an advantage in gymnastics as they are more flexible generally. But then would that be fair on the men 🤔.

Team sports is tricky as football maybe OK, but sports like rugby or waterpolo where its quite physical could be an issue if you had mixed teams just like boxing.

I think you'd end up with very few sports where you could actually have mixed sex competitions. That it wouldn't be worth all the effort.

How about answering the above ?

That tells me you haven't the foggiest. It's really quite simple, it's literal - to be critical of gender.

You're a feminist? Are you absolutely sure about that?

Are you suggesting that MNHQ is not... playing fair?

Thanks for sticking to the topic: I do see that perspective.

100%

read different media

and look up how women fought tooth and nail to be allowed their own sports and why useful idiots are now taking that away from them.

Women's boxing was first in the Olympics in 2012. We had less than 10 years before men got in on it.

How do you define “transphobia”, Tandora?

What does feminism mean to you?

He doesn't wear one because he's a man.

I know right?

I expect that we should be agreeing that ‘feminists wanted equality so female athletes should shut the fuck up and accept female athletes should just compete with male athletes’! I mean ‘equality’ right!

Actually…. I thought I saw a post on a thread today about ‘equality’ between male athletes and female athletes…..

I know exactly what it is and the content/
structure of “gender critical” beliefs/
logics.
It’s not “critical of gender” because it’s based on an entirely erroneous understanding/ theorisation of gender. It reinforces, not challenges gender based oppression.

I got as far as the third sentence which reads: “Sex segregation reflects and reinforces a binary view of both sex and gender unsupported by science.” Then I stopped, because to continue would be a waste of time.

In answer to your original question, OP, I do not believe it is remotely fair to expect females (people without a Y chromosome) to compete against males (people with a Y chromosome).

If it were fair, why would we have sex segregated categories in sports at all?

So you see more unfair play in MNHQ censoring your abusive slurs than in a male person being pitted against a female person in a boxing ring, and taking a spot from a female competitor?

Sure you are...

No, you don't. GC feminists don't believe in gender. You think this is transphobic. Bit like religious people who think atheists are heretics.

Hey @Tandora I changed my username just for you!

You are still ridiculous and wrong.

I remember, years ago, there was a hilarious but sadly deleted post about sports women would do better than men. I remember the OP, who I recall being quite firmly tra in attitude, suggesting an event where women run under a bar rather than try to jump over it. I'm sure pancake tossing was another suggestion.
I wish I'd screen shot it. It was comedy gold.

Sure you are...

Interesting, completely unrelated, factoid. On any given Saturday evening in the UK, 4% of people are on glue.

"Transphobia is not feminism, transphobia is rooted in misogyny "

Transphobia? From someone who has "no strong opinions either way" 🤣
You have this all backwards, OP- transactivism is rooted in hatred and contempt for women.
If you wouldn't do blackface, why would you do womanface- and think we should smile nicely and get out of the way.
This is the most bizarre thread I have seen on here.

Honestly. What do you think feminism actually is, and how do you argue that gender ideology fits within feminist political thought?

It's not a derailment of the thread, because it's derived from the same premise as your argument on sex segregated sport. You're essentially arguing iro both that sexism would disappear if we could move beyond seeing sex. This is just fundamentally not a feminist argument, in the same way trickle down economics is not a socialist one.