Feminists against sex segregation in sports

[Tandora]

AIBU to share a different perspective on a subject that seems to be almost entirely taken for granted on mumsnet? This is not something I have a definite opinion on myself (although I am against sex testing and I fully support the rights of trans women and women with differences in sex development to compete alongside other women in sporting competitions at all levels).

However I have found it really upsetting the degrading way that people have been speaking recently about top/ elite female athletes; denigrating their sporting prowess, and portraying them as weak, feeble and helpless, particularly in the wake of this boxing match controversy.

I started looking into opinions on the issue, starting with a search on “feminists against sex segregation in sport”. I came across this really interesting article.

AIBU to share?

journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/3150/galley/19983/view/

The “gender marker” is often the only administrative information a hospital will have of a patients’ “biological sex”.

Wrong.

Why don't you link to those articles? It's what scientists usually do, they show the evidence that they think supports the claims they are making.

I do t support people changing or hiding their sex where it is relevant and that includes in healthcare settings

I don't support people hurting themselves you see

I think if people want to hurt themselves there is something wrong with them that needs help and support to be fixed , with the caveat of first do no harm

Which you will Clearly see rules out hormonal treatment for transgender people , and surgery

After all most young transgender people will lose that belief that they are the wrong sex as they grow up and learn to accept their whole true selves

Please don't use offensive words like that.

Because anything I posted you would accuse me of being cherry picked and immediately start picking holes in every paper and demanding I answer for them. I’ve been down that road before- and it’s a huge waste of my time and effort and gets no one anywhere.

Thats why , if you are genuinely interested (which I suspect
you are not) I suggest you do your own searches. It is all out there for anyone to read. If you search through actual academic journal sources , the vast majority of literature will have accurate and scientific information about trans healthcare-
so go have a read!. If you search Google for website you’ll find all sorts of nonsense propaganda from anti trans groups like transgender trend.

Only in your fevered dreams.

How so?

Sorry, wasn’t thinking. I’ve reported my own post.

I find your posting style utterly offensive and discriminatory, @Tandora, so I shall be bowing out now.

Coherent options:

(1) No segregation in sport at all. Result: women can't compete at elite levels.

(2) Segregation based on well-defined biological characteristics.

Incoherent option: sports are divided by "gender" and who goes in which group is determined by fuzzy social factors or personal preferences which have no impingement whatsoever on a person's physical abilities.

For a group of people who don’t exist there’s a hella lot of scientific literature about them 🤔 scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=trans+children&btnG=

🤷🏼‍♀️

This is why we need systematic reviews, such as the Cass Review.

You can tell who the ideologues are by who rejects and who accepts things like the Cass Review.

Have some more trust in your evidence, Tandora. If it's sound it will stand up to scrutiny. There is no point to data if it doesn't withstand some probing questions.
However, I'm off to do some chantarelling before the forecast heavy rain arrives.

The issue isn’t with the evidence, it’s with the futility of trying to argue with someone who has already made up their mind.

I've seen a few examples of what you consider to be 'scientific literature',I'll pass thanks.

FFS!

This answers the question I have asked a few times now about whether you even bothered to read the links to studies and papers that we have posted on the other threads you were right there on.

If you bothered to read the links, you would understand why this post is remarkable.

You asked last night what my aim was in my posts from last night. Tandora, when you mischaracterise other’s views as fascist, you then immediately discredit their views. You don’t have to listen to a fascist, amiright?

And yet, in that discussion about single sex spaces, you expressed numerous views that reflected the same opinions of the very people you have labeled fascist. That ‘joke’ you liked from
Iamasexfascist about looking in the mirror and seeing a fascist too, it was fucking spot on (they usually are tbf).

So, why do you now expect fascists to provide you with evidence and direct you to further reading?

Exactly

I look at female athletes and see powerful, strong, fit women. The biological reality is that men have a size, physique advantage.
Thats why we separate them.

Oh dear.

The issue isn’t with the evidence, it’s with the futility of trying to argue with someone who has already made up their mind.

That is probably how most people on this thread feel about you, tbf.
Right, i'm off.

Yeah,parsnips to peel and all that.

Are we back to that? You told me how offensive and abusive it was.