Feminists against sex segregation in sports

[Tandora]

AIBU to share a different perspective on a subject that seems to be almost entirely taken for granted on mumsnet? This is not something I have a definite opinion on myself (although I am against sex testing and I fully support the rights of trans women and women with differences in sex development to compete alongside other women in sporting competitions at all levels).

However I have found it really upsetting the degrading way that people have been speaking recently about top/ elite female athletes; denigrating their sporting prowess, and portraying them as weak, feeble and helpless, particularly in the wake of this boxing match controversy.

I started looking into opinions on the issue, starting with a search on “feminists against sex segregation in sport”. I came across this really interesting article.

AIBU to share?

journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/3150/galley/19983/view/

Women either compete within their own sex category or they compete with men. That's literally the choice. Given that many female athletes do not want to compete with men perhaps we should listen to them. I would also question the motives of a man who wanted to compete against a woman in physical activity where given the differences in strength, weight, height etc. the woman could be very seriously hurt.

Only from the perspective of a gender cult extremist.

None of this is right- especially the statistic you quote at the start- but it’s not the subject of the thread.

Is gender cult extremist allowed? When I used similar terms against “gender criticals” I was threatened with a suspension.

Question for mumsnet HQ.

Plenty of trans girls and women are really private about being trans and the pass as women, it wouldn’t even necessarily be on their medical records.

What's the procedure for an individual to wipe their medical record and expunge this sort of fact? Just interested in what kind of personal
data can be changed and amended.

@Tandora address the content of what those women are saying in the video, rather than dismiss it because you don't like them.

Going back to the shot-putters - the women doing it are the tallest strongest women who put the shot further than any other women. Why are they so far behind the distances of the men, even though the shot they use is lighter? Are you really suggesting that they don't train as hard, or are less competent somehow than the men? The difference is down to their sexed bodies. Pick a woman shot putter, Valerie Adams, and find a top world shot putting man who is the same height and roughly same weight. Look at their throw difference and maybe try to take into account the different size and weight of the shot.

Do you really still think that men and women of the same height and weight, who both train to the same standard, would produce performances in the same range???

It's just wilful scientific stupidity to not recognise every single bit of data we have that demonstrates the sexed differences physically between men and women.

You can change your name , title and gender marker on nhs administrative systems.

Hospitals do not typically have easy access to notes detailing a patients medical history. They are usually all site specific on the nhs

Sex segregation where necessary

And full equality where not

So medical treatment - should be appropriate to the person and that means understanding where sexually biology matters

Ditto safety equipment

Sport - sex matters because of biology

And full equality otherwise - no different treatment or assumptions because of gender- so that's no different clothing expectations ( not unisex as clothes should fit ) all the way to expecting the same number of women in politics and science and working out what's going wrong

Feminism - recognise the real differences and reject the societal induced ones

Change your hospital record to hide you sex and be at increased risk of death as a result - not to be supported

I don't know any younger women who think human beings can change sex.

I look forward to you supplying more than an assertion to support your claim.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

You don’t support trans people being allowed to change their name,
pronoun and gender marker on their medical record?

Oh Lord please
dont quote transgender trend at me.

nothing they post is scientific they are an anti trans lobby/ hate group.

Now I know we are just being punked and you are clutching at straws.

The idea that we need to find a different way to appreciate that Serena Williams was better than most men at tennis, except the top 200 or so (noting she said she wouldn’t even come close to the top 100) that matter is laughable. As if Serena heading down to the local tennis club to beat the non-professional men is going to achieve that. The fact she (and other women) have the opportunity to play for the same trophy, title, and ranking in their sex category IS the way you respect women in sport.

The Australian women‘s Olympic soccer team was beaten by a bog standard university men’s soccer team. I bet we should just celebrate the fact they would beat all the u13 year old boys teams in the country. That would make them feel much more special than doing this silly little Olympic thing.

No they are not and that is defamatory.

The medical staff would need their biological sex so the could administer sex appropriate health care.

Are you really suggesting that they don't train as hard, or are less competent somehow than the men?

no I agree their differences are down to their bodies.

Yes they are and I have absolutely no problem saying so.m.

No alternative source then? There are links in the article to the studies which support what I said; research carried out at paediatric gender clinics.

Are you telling us that paediatric gender medicine is unscientific?

It’s almost as if Tandora is posting ludicrous things about women and sport knowing we will immediately link to the evidence disproving it

like I said double agent 😉

You don't know the difference between biological sex and a 'gender marker' so it's hardly surprising your fantasy sports competition in your head sounds so very muddled and insincere.

No the information peddled by transgender trend is anti scientific because they are an anti trans/
lobby hate group.

just do some searching of academic journals if you are interested in learning more about this area of medicine. Theres plenty out there. Dont pull your facts from the website of an anti trans lobby group.

Hardly,they can just reappear in men's spaces.

like I said double agent 😉

Well, you did have a problem saying so because you can't even type out the words correctly, even using the edit function.