Feminists against sex segregation in sports

[Tandora]

AIBU to share a different perspective on a subject that seems to be almost entirely taken for granted on mumsnet? This is not something I have a definite opinion on myself (although I am against sex testing and I fully support the rights of trans women and women with differences in sex development to compete alongside other women in sporting competitions at all levels).

However I have found it really upsetting the degrading way that people have been speaking recently about top/ elite female athletes; denigrating their sporting prowess, and portraying them as weak, feeble and helpless, particularly in the wake of this boxing match controversy.

I started looking into opinions on the issue, starting with a search on “feminists against sex segregation in sport”. I came across this really interesting article.

AIBU to share?

journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/3150/galley/19983/view/

Yep! We have a close friend with a child on an elite pathway for tennis. To be competitive, they HAVE to travel around to tournaments, many of which last for 5-7 days. Travel costs and accommodation are ALL the responsibility of the parents. It would be lucky to get away with spending less than £500 per tournament for travel, hotels, and a greater food spend… let alone the possible lost income or productivity.

I really doubt claims that in most sports the majority of emerging athletes come from struggling families. I think it was previously more achievable, but there has been a real trend to things like travel, hot housing, and private coaching etc in many sports.

@Tandora Promise?

Tandora, I think you have posted enough hateful, ignorant misogyny for one night.
I hope you feel better tomorrow.

It just makes you look incompetent so you might want to rethink that strategy.

I just worry about the way it reinforces harmful gender stereotypes and perceptions of female inferiority

it is to do with biological sex, not gender.

Women aren't inferior, we are just not the same as men.

Of course they don't. I thought the OP was a woman at first, but the posts and responses, say definitely male... no real idea about women.

Feelz??

”people have suggested height, weight, ”

sigh 🙄 but don’t you know that a male who is exactly the same age, height and weight as a female is stronger and faster than the female?

If you create a mixed sex category based on anything else than sex, the competition rounds will drop out the athletes of the female sex.

The article in the OP is so lacking in basic knowledge its conclusions are cringe worthy.

I thought the OP was a woman at first, but the posts and responses, say definitely male

but don’t you know that a male who is exactly the same age, height and weight as a female is stronger and faster than the female?

No. Some males (the same height/ weight) are faster than some females. This is exactly the stuff that bothers me and why I find sex segregation in sports troubling in terms of the (binary) assumptions about gender that it reinforces.
This is what causes people to denigrate female athletes and suggest that their abilities are equivalent to a “shit” , “mediocre” man.

OP. I really don’t believe you are that stupid.

Riddle me this - why is the Olympic shotput for women just over half the weight of the men’s shotput and the women still cannot ‘throw’ as far? Is it because we have been infantilized and haven’t trained hard enough? Do you genuinely believe if you focused your career on it (as a hypothetical), you could make women competitive against men in the Olympic shot-put competition using the same weight put? After all, some women are the same weight and height, so why not…

You are not even remotely open to discussing or learning. You completely misunderstand GC feminism and feminism as a whole. You don’t seem capable of understanding facts or to think critically. The majority of women disagree with you but you are absolutely convinced this is because they are wrong and bigots. It’s not really worth engaging, to be honest.

You don’t seem capable of understanding facts or to think critically

Men have no place in women’s sport.

I’m not open to being “schooled” about feminism by (so-called) “gender critical” feminists no (aka told I’m not a feminist but a misogynistic male abuser), feminism is a subject I know vast amounts about.

I was interested in learning more about, and discussing people’s knowledge and opinions on, sex segregation in sports

Can you find a single female world record in this list of athletics records that is better than the equivalent men's record? Do you think there would be a single woman competing in the Paris 2024 athletics competitions if it weren't for sex (not gender) specific categories?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics

this is a subject I know vast amounts about.
Alas, there's distinct lack of evidence for that claim.

Honestly im now at the point of assuming Tandora is a deep under cover TERF double agent 😁

every post does our work for us! Operation #letthemspeak

So answer my question. Why do female shot-put athletes throw a smaller distance despite a significantly lighter shotput? These female shotput athletes aren’t recruited from the local ballet school and weighing in at 7 stone. They are typically tall for the female sex (average of nearly 6 foot, so as a handy hint, recruiting taller women won’t help you… there aren’t that many.

Says who? A woman who thinks being “gender critical” is the only “type” of feminism available? Sounds like someone who knows very little about feminism.

Anyways, this thread is about sex segregation in sports.

Yeah but Jenny down in accounting is faster and stronger than bob in the IT department, even though bob is taller. It’s just a coincidence that the blokes have run faster, jumped further/higher, and thrown better in your little list. It’s not like that at all when we have our inter office mini Olympics.

You don't get to control how threads develop and you don't get to control if people think you're a feminist or not.

You don't get to control how threads develop

No. but I’m free to remind people of the subject of the OP.

you don't get to control if people think you're a feminist or not

Im not the least interested in trying to control how other people think. That would be futile. But I won’t let other people control the narrative about what I think- I am a feminist.

This is not something I have a definite opinion on myself (although I am against sex testing and I fully support the rights of trans women and women with differences in sex development to compete alongside other women in sporting competitions at all levels).

That is a very definite opinion! You’re supporting the right of men (transwomen are by definition male; no woman can be a transwoman) to compete against women.

This website shows how pointless that is:
boysvswomen.com

Yet you avoid all questions on the actual topic you are so eager to explore.

Anyway, you already said up thread you would not like to see an outcome where people born female were excluded from Olympic medals in athletics and swimming. Therefore, you do support sex based segregation for many sports.