Feminists against sex segregation in sports

[Tandora]

AIBU to share a different perspective on a subject that seems to be almost entirely taken for granted on mumsnet? This is not something I have a definite opinion on myself (although I am against sex testing and I fully support the rights of trans women and women with differences in sex development to compete alongside other women in sporting competitions at all levels).

However I have found it really upsetting the degrading way that people have been speaking recently about top/ elite female athletes; denigrating their sporting prowess, and portraying them as weak, feeble and helpless, particularly in the wake of this boxing match controversy.

I started looking into opinions on the issue, starting with a search on “feminists against sex segregation in sport”. I came across this really interesting article.

AIBU to share?

journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/3150/galley/19983/view/

and we accept the end of female born participants in the Olympics in many of those events

No. I definitely wouldn’t support that outcome.

And why can't they use a bed on the men's ward?

But not all women agree with you? I think probably most don’t: certainly most younger women

So you agree that in the discus throw, people who have been through male puberty have physical advantages and it is appropriate for the discus throw to be a sex based event?

😂😂😂

But some women do not consent for all women. If some women say no that means no.

Is this a joke?

You support males beating up women?

The misogyny is terrifying.

Lesson of this thread: Do not put 'feminist(s)' in your OP if you do not want feminists to show up and point out your misogyny. And yeah, that includes feminists who are trans but not misogynist and don't like opportunists speaking for them.

(Edited to remove stray quote mark.)

Because they are not men. That would be firstly outing, secondly deeply degrading and violation of rights , third induce dysphoria, forth the risk of putting a passing trans woman alone on a male ward would be far greater than the risk to women of putting a trans woman on a female ward. It would basically make it impossible for trans women to access healthcare if that were the rule. They just wouldn’t because it would be an unliveable, untenable situation for them.

A hospital ward isn't "public life". It's a medical setting where women and girls are vulnerable. And it's not about making women more comfortable. It's about not traumatising and distressing them, and about not exposing them to additional risk, when it can easily be avoided.

Being treated in a private room is not being treated as a second class citizen! It is preferential treatment.

If medical staff on a hospital ward are unaware of the sex of the person they are treating due to that information being obfuscated on medical records then that is dangerous for the person concerned. Male and female bodies are different and treatment may need to be adjusted accordingly. The NHS is putting people at risk for the sake of ideology if that is genuinely occurring.

What if a trans person doesn’t choose to disclose they are trans ?

And this would be very very stupidly dangerous because knowing someone's sex is vital to receiving proper health care. If they receive the wrong sex health care that can be fatal!

You don't seem to understand the basics for trans health care either?

This is yet again another good example of why biological reality is so very important.

And it has been explained to you in the past. It is not their ‘transness’. It is that they are identifiably male.

Are you saying that in a medical situation a person who is the opposite sex to their gender identity would not disclose this status? That would be very dangerous indeed. And if that is going to be the case , the NHS should never allow medical records to be changed or for new records to be started if that person wishes to hide such life threatening data.

But not only that, if they don’t disclose they are male and are put in a female bay/room, doesn’t that show immense disrespect for the needs of female people? Are you saying that males with trans identities cannot respect female people’s needs?

Is that how you see them? We have been assured by our friends and by others who know trans people that this is not the case, yet there we have it? I guess that is why policies are needed.

And ‘wanting trans people to disappear from public life’ is hyperbole. It is catastropising. This is an overly dramatic misrepresentation. Having a male person accommodated in a private room is not ‘disappearing’ them.

It is also legitimate discrimination to provide high levels of safeguarding based on female people’s needs. When safeguarding is needed, sex matters and no sub group from
that sex is to be exempt from risk assessment at the sex level. Because that is how safeguarding risk should be applied.

I’m a feminist and I’m not the least bit misogynistic. Transphobia is rooted in misogyny.

🪨

But they are men when a woman is requesting a female doctor?

No. But a woman has a right to refuse a doctor for any reason imv. If she wants to refuse a doctor because she is uncomfortable that they are trans, I think that’s ok.

No she's uncomfortable with a male

@Tandora not because they are trans! Because they are male!!

Ok ladies, I need to go to sleep. 😴

this thread has been..:. An experience

yep. Because having an open category works.

It also allows female people to develop having fair competition available to them.

Those women are exceptional, indeed on numerous levels, to compete in the open category.

If that’s her opinion and she wants to change her doctor for that reason , then so be it

Still struggling with the logic but nevermind.

Well it was you who said you support transwomen competing against women at all levels.

In boxing that could easily result in the woman's death or serious injury. You can't have it both ways.

Nobody wants trans people to disappear from public life. They do want them to disappear from women's spaces .

So self exclude from health care then?

And I see you've done the N+1 argument on how many woman are acceptable collateral damage too!

The misogyny just keeps unfolding!