Feminists against sex segregation in sports

[Tandora]

AIBU to share a different perspective on a subject that seems to be almost entirely taken for granted on mumsnet? This is not something I have a definite opinion on myself (although I am against sex testing and I fully support the rights of trans women and women with differences in sex development to compete alongside other women in sporting competitions at all levels).

However I have found it really upsetting the degrading way that people have been speaking recently about top/ elite female athletes; denigrating their sporting prowess, and portraying them as weak, feeble and helpless, particularly in the wake of this boxing match controversy.

I started looking into opinions on the issue, starting with a search on “feminists against sex segregation in sport”. I came across this really interesting article.

AIBU to share?

journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/3150/galley/19983/view/

Didn’t you say this to at least one poster over the past days?

Along with telling us generally that we disgusted you?

Should females be allowed sex segregated prisons?

tricky. I think this one depends. I’m not sure.

Think out loud with us, why is it tricky? What would it depend on? Where is the line for you?

Should females be allowed sex segregated rape crisis centres?

tricky. I think probably yes.

Why is this one tricky? Please expand if you are able. Why only probably yes?

Should females be allowed sex segregated health care?

not if this means excluding women with sex variations and trans women.

Do you have any respect for sexual assault victims, people from certain religions, those with cognitive disorders such as dementia? Any idea of how dangerous it would be to medically treat someone of male sex as female and vice versa?

Should females be allowed any kind of single sex anything?

Yes probably.

Can you expand please? "Hmmm... maybe" Doesn't quite cut it here either I'm afraid.

Should lesbians be forced to have sex with "lady dick"?

NO!!!!!

Well halleluiah and thank fuck for that! ('scuse my language!) One thing we can agree on!!! And FWIW I am so glad you aren't advocating for this at the very least. Bit transphobic of you though is it not? 😉

That I as a survivor of abuse should accept a man wearing a dress to be my doctor and I have no right to insist on a same sex doctor?

Sorry I thought this meant on wards and stuff. Yes I definitely think you have a right to insist on a same sex doctor

Didn’t you say this to at least one poster over the past days?

no.

They have zero interest in being educated, they've even said they have no intention of changing their views because they know more about feminism and trans issues than most mumsnetters.

There's no point talking to people like this. Their entire goal in posting this thread is to goad people into kicking off, and mission successful 🤷‍♀️

Hormone levels could be one ?

Sorry I thought this meant on wards and stuff. Yes I definitely think you have a right to insist on a same sex doctor.

So do you believe that biological sex matters?

I can still hear the anger and vitriol in your posts. Theres none there on my side

You're dangerous precisely because you're so deluded. Anger and vitriol against biological females is at the root of your ideology, and that's what posters here are up against from the get-go. So your childish gimmick of flinging other posters' very understandable exasperation back at them in bold is pathetic and shallow.

But not surprising and definitely not effective!

Yes. it matters

You're dangerous precisely because you're so deluded. Anger and vitriol against biological females is at the root of your ideology, and that's what posters here are up against from the get-go. So your childish gimmick of flinging other posters' very understandable exasperation back at them in bold is pathetic and shallow.

Ok. So when women and girls say that they don't want biological men in their single sex spaces do you support that?

And I fully support the rights of women to take part in sport without having to think about whether transwomen or other male bodied people are on the same pitch, in the same pool, in the same ring, on the same judo mat or running track…….

I am of course really happy for transwomen and other male bodied persons to take part in sporting events competing against other male bodied people, and would cheer them on, sport is an excellent thing for everyone.

Damn right I'm angry with any MRAs who want to remove female rights, spaces, etc and who wish to harm or use children in any agenda.

And we can see the barely hidden misogyny in your posts.

I'm glad you're happy to share, we are happy to see you make a complete fool of yourself over and over again.

I do think you should be ashamed to your very core, but I'm sure you don't care about my opinion, just as I don't care for yours.

Ok. You supported a poster who did then.

I do believe you have stated that we as a group ‘disgust you’ multiple times though. I notice you didn’t deny that.

You say you don’t answer with vitriol. That has been provably untrue over the past few days. You obviously don’t even recollect your own posts that others are telling you about how you have treated them.

I’ve already answered what I think about that on a range of topics. Since you are acting like a prosecutor in a court of law, I shall say “asked an answered!”

What is your aim with these posts Helle?

We know the female and male ranges of testosterone don't cross over and male advantage is mostly gained by going through male puberty which women don't do.

Which hormone do you think should be measured?

Hormone levels? Please, this is just uninformed waffle. Hormone levels - so every single competitor in any kind of ratified competition would need regular hormone level checks, and then... which hormones, and at what levels, and why do differing hormone levels outweigh the other differences between male and female bodies?

Do you mean testosterone levels? So a 6ft 7in male bodied person with size 17 feet and an arm span of more than their height could compete against female swimmers, if they took testosterone blockers? Regardless of their gender identity? Make it make sense!!

we are happy to see you make a complete fool of yourself over and over again. I do think you should be ashamed to your very core

I'm genuinely trying to understand.

If you think it's fine for a woman to request a doctor who is biologically female, then logic would suggest that you support women and girls when we say we do not want biological men in our single sex spaces?

Am I right?

Fun fact time for those who are self confessedly not very knowledgeable about sport.
A sports contest such as in boxing is called a match because it is supposed to be between equally matched competitors.
That is why we don't just chuck any two random fighters in a ring but use fairly narrow weight bands (or nuanced categories as some might call them) or allow newbie fights to take on world champs. They have to demonstrate their suitability to challenge, not because the boxing authorities are boring old meanies who want to stifle new talent but because they need to ensure that when fighters go into the ring it is fair.

😂😂😂 fair enough. I don’t really have opinions or answers on this as I have repeatedly said. I just wanted to open a discussion to see if anyone else did.
one pp said that this had already been considered in rugby but rejected. Thats really interesting and I’ll look into it.

OP: Posts inflammatory, goady post.
People: Get angry
OP:

Nooo! Don't be logical or rational, and don't ask intelligent questions!

Remember we are meant to be fascists! 😂

Aww I'm really trying here🤔