To think that men shouldn’t be in female changing rooms?

[Picoloangel]

I have a DD who is almost 13. Twice now in H and M we have been in the changing rooms in a branch in London and men have been in the changing rooms waiting for their girlfriends to try on clothes. I don’t mean outside I mean actually in the changing room sitting on a bench.

I am not sure when this became a thing but it makes me really uncomfortable to think that my young DD is in there in a state of undress with men sitting outside. Today she was trying on a swimsuit - the cubicle wasn’t big enough for both of us so she would have had to walk out to show me in full view of an adult male. She didn’t as she didn’t like it but that’s not the point. I know she’ll be in a swimsuit on holiday but this felt different.

The cubicles have these half doors so in theory someone could look over the door. Am I being a pearl clutcher or is this weird? It worries me now that she is starting to go shopping on her own.

Heres one of the threads from 2019
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3735251-AIBU-to-want-to-boycott-M-S

We’re both doing the same work. This is great.

I’m going to keep going. My letters are making a difference. It’s small, but it matters. Once we have no rights at all ;this will happen, we both know it), we will know we did not go quietly.

Primark 2017
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3106224-Primark-changing-rooms

They have no place in there at all. Of course you are not being unreasonable.

How irritating are the disingenuous posters on these threads, asking in a tone of injured innocence 'what's the problem?' when OP has just explained very clearly exactly what the problem is.

Men do not need to be infiltrating every single space designed for women. Other women don't necessarily want to have your Nigel only feet away when they or their daughters are in a state of undress.

Women are more than capable of purchasing their own outfit without seeking Nigel's opinion. He can wait outside. A mind of one's own is always under good regulation.

I complained in New Look about this! Totally inappropriate. Yes there are doors or curtains and half the time they don’t shut.

We have to keep complaining and WRITING every time. I have a bog standard email I send now. Saves time and gets straight to the point.

Primark have listened: not sure whether or not this was the result of the distressed female customer and the video that went viral on social media. But when I took my young son in there last week, they had 'any gender' and 'women only' changing areas.

Made a nice difference from automatically co-opting the women's space whilst men, naturally, retain a space of their own.

Women are half the populace. We are not going away any time soon, and we are not going to sit back and quietly cede over our spaces, sports and medical language without kicking up a fuss, making a lot of noise about it, and using our power as consumers to hit retailers where it hurts.

It's taking far too long but I believe the message is gradually getting through.

Agreed. We are also, almost universally, the ones who take our children shopping for clothes or decide what our young children wear. In my email I say I have very little control over anything but I do control exactly where my money is spent.

Thanks all for your replies and sharing previous threads etc. I genuinely hadn’t noticed this because I always shop online. Until v recently DD and I either shopped online or were in children’s changing rooms and shops.

I work in the criminal justice system and am quite prepared to accept that my reality is a bit more warped than most but it is naive in the extreme for people to think that there isn’t a significant problem with very young women being harassed, stared at by men etc. DD remarked to me yesterday that she couldn’t imagine a situation where a woman in her 50s would be perving at a 12 year old boy and she’s absolutely right but that happened to us yesterday.

Why shouldn’t she have a space to get undressed etc where she feels safe from prying eyes? And yes, women should buy what they want without the opinion of a man. Interestingly on both occasions the men were very controlling - the women rejected clothing which the men cajoled them into buying. 🙄

As re Primark there is a female changing room in our local one and a gender neutral one but at least there is a choice. There are many reasons why women don’t want to be undressed, trying on outfits etc without men being present. We shouldn’t have to justify to to anyone.

I gather that many retailers are getting fed up with the amount of online shoppers, returned goods etc but if they don’t provide female friendly changing rooms what do they expect? I will be buying DD’s stuff online in future. In the meantime I am going to start complaining where I see this happening.

I actually value my husband’s opinion. He prefers to wait outside or in the designated waiting area if there is one. I go outside and ask for his opinion if I feel I need to.

If I go shopping with a boyfriend I ensure that he stays outside of the changing area. I don't want (a) any other girls or women to be worried, or (b) him to be tempted to look where he shouldn't.

Those half-sized doors, half the time a tall man could look over the top of one and see you while you are changing. Some of the doors have gaps on the side or curtains that have gaps. Sometimes you have to come out of your individual changing room and stand in the common area of the changing room so you can stand far enough away from a mirror to see gaps in the fit of the clothing that expose skin you do not want to expose. All of those are reasons why a woman might want a changing area that does not include males.

How is it any different to tons of leisure centres having communal changing rooms? She'd be coming out in a bikini or costume then too.

@Lifeasweknowitisrandom I don’t go to swimming pools but I do want to try things on in shops.

Your choice but the two places aren't really any different.

The men should wait outside. There would be complaints for sure if women were waiting right in the men’s changing rooms.

That’s your opinion. But I don’t want men in a space where I’m getting undressed. Simple. They can wait outside. Decent men do. I always complain if there’s men there.

They can't wait outside a communal dressing room though can they. It's not like you're naked in front of them. I go swimming and haven't ever once thought 'oh there's a man in the cubicle next to me'

I think it’s all related to the lack of respect men have for women’s spaces. If appropriate, I would complain

I think it’s all related to the lack of respect men have for women’s spaces. If appropriate, I would complain to staff and have complained in similar circumstances. Unfortunately many staff seem to think it’s ok for men to enter the womens’ changing room so they don’t enforce boundaries.

H&M are crap when it comes to changing rooms. It is one of the reasons why I don't want to shop there anymore.

One of their shops in Denmark got renovated in the end of the nineties and got saloon doors in the changing rooms. If you were an average height and didn't bend down everything was covered ... well, -ish. There was a gap between the doors. But if you sat down or bent down you weren't. I was there to buy underwear. I went to the cashier instead and told her why I wouldn't buy anything that day. She actually asked why I told her. I had to tell her that she was supposed to tell the manager and that companies actually like to get this kind of feedback instead of people just walking out. They kept the doors for two or three years.

In the large branch on the high street in Copenhagen they used to have flimsy, tiny, thin curtains in the dressing room in the women's department and big, heavy, thick curtains in the dressing rooms in the men's department.

Why do you keep talking about leisure room cubicles? We’re talking about clothes changing room. I know if I go swimming that there may be a communal changing area with cubicles. I never go but I know that is the case in some places.

What we’re talking about here is women’s changing rooms with men sitting in them. Different thing. My expectation when I go into a women’s changing room in a shop is that there will be no men there. That is different from my expectation when I go into a communal changing room in a leisure centre (which I never do). It’s men encroaching on women’s spaces. I want to take a bit of time in the clothes changing room, maybe ask the assistants opinion, go out and look at the large mirror etc… none of which I feel comfortable doing if Nigel is sitting there.

I'm mentioning it because it really is no different. You can still ask a shop assistant's opinion and look in a mirror with a bloke there. 99% of the time they wouldn't even be there anyway. I don't think I've ever seen in a man in a shop changing room but I couldn't give a stuff if they were there. Most of the time, they probably don't want to be there anyway but their partner has dragged them along for an opinion.

The shop can make their decision about who can go in the changing room and you can decide to go or not to go to that shop

@Lifeasweknowitisrandom I’m not engaging with you any more as you are determined not to listen to my concerns. So I’m not wasting any more precious time. Too much transmitting, not enough receiving.

Men shouldn’t be in women’s changing rooms.

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