to say women don't have XY chromosomes?

[taylorswift1989]

Seeing a lot of posts on social media with people admitting they were "wrong" to call Imane Khelif a man, and that they now understand "she's a woman with XY chromosomes."

Am I going insane? A person with XY chromosomes is male! (Regardless of how they identify, of course.) Why are people saying stuff that is obviously nonsensical? Are people really that ignorant of basic biological facts?

Colour us all surprised.

I only have one question - why (if there are suddenly so many different and new sexually developed humans) - do we have to have them in the women’s class? It’s the age old misogyny of “failed man = woman “ - well, they’re not women and we don’t want to have to budge up to make space for them, and lose out on all the bloody hard work we’ve done so far - they can piss off to their own category. Why can’t they have a “Universal” class?

Anyone with XY is a man, regardless of how sensitive or not their body was to testosterone - yes, it would be horrible to find out you had this disorder at puberty, and I sympathise, but that doesn’t give you a green light to cheat women out of their places on the podium - knowing you have a massive physical advantage, what kind of narcissistic person would decide to pursue a very public sporting career and go for the Olympics? Only someone who was really horribly misogynistic and wanted to beat real women to show them “who’s boss”.

Im actually finding you amusing now Tandora. I think you nust be very young. Your circular logic and 'what about' style of arguing is just going to lead you round in circles 😀

MRKH women are female. Although there can be differences in the development of their vagina, they have XX chromosomes and usually functioning ovaries.

The dissonance with that post was alarming.

It was a very clear example of the reason why I now stick very closely to 'male athletes' and 'female athletes'. Because that was also a dishonest sleight of hand. The language changed from 'female' to 'women' with the meaning of that supposedly being that anyone who calls themselves a 'woman' should be competing with female athletes.

So many posters post emotional vilifying posts about people using the term 'male' and 'female' in relation to these athletes. But that post was a very clear example of why the meaning can be twisted to reflect the personal political agenda of the poster. That is not rational discussion. That is emotionally manipulative.

Im actually finding you amusing now Tandora. I think you nust be very young

Read an article in the Times which said that coaches in some African countries seek out these people to train as they have an advantage!

Follow the money and see why there's a lot of people working very hard to shut down the discussion about men in women's sport.

Jeez the mental gymnastics on this thread are Gold medal worthy! Of course female athletes are not “shit men”, no one has said that. It is however a fact that men, on the whole, are stronger and faster than women. The reason being we are DIFFERENT. If you disagree please show me a strength/speed related sport where women outperform men as a routine.

i can show you some figures from this Olympiad, let’s take swimming as an example.

100m Freestyle

The women’s 100m Final was won in a time of 52.16, with the World Record being 51.71.

The men’s 100m Final was won in a World Record Time of 46.8

Do you know how many men across the competition beat the Women’s Final time? Of 79 men in the heats, 59 swam a faster time than the Women’s Final and 55 of those broke the Women’s World Record.

That’s just in the heats, which let’s face it a lot of people aren’t giving 100%.

In the semi-finals and Finals, EVERY SINGLE SWIMMER smashed the Women’s World Record. Even the slowest of the lot swam a time of 48.7.

Does that take anything away from the achievements of the women, absolutely not. What it does is drive home the chasm between male strength and female strength.

@GargoylesofBeelzebub
it is true.

None of us have seen any test results. We still don’t know on what specific evidence the IBA chose to disqualify Yin and Khelif for ‘not meeting the gender category criteria’.

All of this is assumption on how Khelif looks.

The gender test could have been faulty... regardless I think there is grounds to re test.

Swyers would show the XY in the gender test. But a test for T and Steroids should be done as well.

Steroids would make someone look masculin as well.

All in all It's very fishy.

Interestingly, rowing had some guidelines for a while that said men who identified as women could row in the women’s teams, but they couldn’t take the place of women in the mixed teams as that would give those teams an unfair advantage. I think (hope) they were quickly taken down.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I can't believe the irony/hypocrisy of all the gender critical people on here. When so many people are being transphobic all I hear is " If you have a vagina you are a woman, no penis- you are a woman." Ffs, make your bloody minds up. For the hard of thinking...She is a woman!

None of us have seen any test results. We still don’t know on what specific evidence the IBA chose to disqualify Yin and Khelif for ‘not meeting the gender category criteria’.

All of this is assumption on how Khelif looks.

It is not. RTFT.

I haven't read the whole thread yet

Shows.

This isn't a trans debate, so that isn't relevant. And he's a man!

You seem a bit confused, maybe read the thread and come back to it?

Perhaps you should .....

But none of this suggests that top female althletes have the equivalent performance of “shit” and “ mediocre” men. Which is what I was objecting to. This use of language is not only wrong but degrading to women’s sports. There’s nothing mediocre about the men competing in the swimming olympics.

He's "won" again and so now taking a woman's medal. What an opportunistic man. A left wing hero no doubt.

For the terminally stupid, he is a man!

Rowing has come down on the side of women in women's sport.

Do you agree with a transman competing in women’s boxing?

He was tested with a cheek swab that showed he was a man, XY. Hope this helps.

I just did a very unscientific experiment with my DS aged 13, about 1 inch taller than me (but lighter !) - he is far, far stronger than me.