to say women don't have XY chromosomes?

[taylorswift1989]

Seeing a lot of posts on social media with people admitting they were "wrong" to call Imane Khelif a man, and that they now understand "she's a woman with XY chromosomes."

Am I going insane? A person with XY chromosomes is male! (Regardless of how they identify, of course.) Why are people saying stuff that is obviously nonsensical? Are people really that ignorant of basic biological facts?

Think of XY as the code, the building blocks that builds a “male”. Sometimes your body has the building blocks/ code, but something else interrupts the implementation/ building, so the body develops a different way instead .

😩

Please explain the difference between genetic and chromosome testing please.

@AuntieEstablishmentthey have testes - do you think people born with testes are women?

Interesting but also annoying because he clearly doesn't understand the science at all, though is trying to be balanced. Uses phrases like

'Lin was born a girl' when in fact, that can only be the assumption everyone made at the time, later proved to not be the case

DSD apparently means 'a person with a different, less linear personal biology' when in fact the meaning of DSD is right there in the name so no need to fanny about

saying the case is hugely complex and essentially irresolvable. I don't think it is actually. XY = not female, can't fight / compete with females.

also saying they detected 'the presence of sufficient male chromosomes' implying you can have a couple simply floating around your bloodstream peskily showing up when you don't want them to when in fact they are in EVERY CELL OF YOUR BODY

I feel for the person / people affected, because they were brought up as if they were female, and often had very misogynistic cultures to contend with on top of that. But the fact they are not XX means they shouldn't be in the XX category... very simple. Nothing to do with vag/pecker, womb/testes (actually might be to do with testes since they are the cause of male puberty)

Anyway there's my twopenneth

This has not been explained at all. It has been repeatedly asserted without evidence.

That's not the same thing and please don't think you can harangue me into silence with such obvious tactics.

Facts are facts because they don't change or cease to be true, even if you repeatedly assert the opposite. As a scientist, you should know that.

And if you'd bothered to read the bloody thread this has already been answered for you 🙄.

Mediocre male athletes will be beaten by exceptional female athletes on occasion. It does not mean that the male athlete does not have an advantage.

How is this as an example:

If someone put a motor on their bike and competed in the Tour de France, and lost, does that mean that the competitor didn't have a competitive advantage? Or was not a mediocre competitor to start with?

So this point too is irrelevant for competition. But. Not for safety.

What you are supporting is, in effect, very dangerous for female athletes due to male people have on average 160+% more punch power than female people (that is not athletes, that is just the general population) and many other advantages. In fact, part of the punch power is derived from skeletal leverage that males have to give this power that female people do not have. And bone mass and density that is greater in male people than female people.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/

This above is the review of 13 studies from Dr Emma Hilton and Tommy Lundberg and it shows these advantages, if anyone wishes to check for themselves.

To be clear. This bone difference means stronger bones!

Female people have been proven to have bones that are more prone to breakage, particularly in the face. And they are more prone to concussion and brain damage due to their more delicate brain fibres. This has been studied and is now shaping Rugby guidelines for female participation, as an example.

Rugby concussion: Swansea University study into protecting women https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51434749

To those who use the 'but they didn't win' what do you believe will happen to a female with those more delicate bones and brain fibres when hit with punches that are 160+% harder than other female boxers?

There are places in the world where this DSD is not uncommon.

Having difficulty doing the search on my phone. Shall post the link when I’m back to my laptop.

in answer to your question: there is a specific DSD where babies are mistaken for girls at birth because of a malformation, but develop as males at puberty.

Chromosomal Variability: While the typical chromosomal patterns are XX for females and XY for males, there are variations. Individuals with XY chromosomes can have conditions such as Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) or Turner Syndrome, which can lead to a female phenotype despite having male chromosomes. @taylorswift1989

Have you seen their balls??

Oh yes and @Tandora you are fibbing about the PhD since no one who has written, submitted or had published a paper for peer review in an academic journal would claim to have produced 'many peer review publications'.

Just because they lost matches doesn't mean they can't be a male.

There is an overlap in performance between the best females and mediocre males. They just might be a shit boxer, who has got this far because their competing in the woman category where their superior strength matters and gives them an advantage.

apologies a sloppy of conflation of language on my part, although I disagree that sex is absolutely determined by genetics alone.

We really can’t!

Why would you think that? If this athlete has a DSD, they may have been born with incomplete genitalia.

A vulva is not incomplete male genitalia, thank you very much.

Women are not malformed men, people who don’t quite make the category of ‘proper’ men!

errr well I did say this and I do , so you are wrong there I’m afraid 💁🏼‍♀️

To coin a well-loved Mumsnet phrase, this really boils my piss.

It's little giveaways like this that tells us what 'society' really does think of women. That would be over half the populace. Makes me want to cry with rage.

No, you are confused. Think instead of X and Y chromosomes as files full of documents with instructions (genes). Rarely a document may end up in the wrong file or a document may be corrupted so when the instructions are followed the wrong process happens.

And as we know scouts are purposefully seeking out DSD individuals for the sole purpose of cheating in women’s sport.

Khelif's building blocks did a remarkable job then of developing someone who looks like a male, moves like a male and has male strength considering you keep insisting they are female.

Has Auntie seen their vagina?

They may be internal testes rather than 'balls' but they still produce testosterone.

In what? Gender studies?

She's lost 9 matches...

This simply proves that even mediocre males do very well in women's sport. And the controversy isn't "because she doesn't look womanly enough" FFS! It's because "she" previously failed a test to confirm "she" was a woman.

@KielderWater because FROM OBSERVATION the label of female was put on her birth certificate. How exactly do you think that happened? That's how sex is usually assigned/determined at birth.

I mean isn’t it a bit of an insult to women’s sport to reduce them to “mediocre males”. Honestly as a woman I find this whole debate deeply insulting and degrading,