to say women don't have XY chromosomes?

[taylorswift1989]

Seeing a lot of posts on social media with people admitting they were "wrong" to call Imane Khelif a man, and that they now understand "she's a woman with XY chromosomes."

Am I going insane? A person with XY chromosomes is male! (Regardless of how they identify, of course.) Why are people saying stuff that is obviously nonsensical? Are people really that ignorant of basic biological facts?

@Tandora so do you think there shouldn't be male or female categories or just that people should be free to enter which ever they prefer?

@Rosscameasdoody call it whatever you like. My point is, we can assume that Khelif was born with a vulva. Everything else is speculation as none of the testing has been specified or released.

Personally I do not agree with / support sex testing in sports

Why on earth not?!

People with MRKH are women. Like other women, they do not have a Y chromosome. I suspect that as with other people with DSDs, they would prefer not to used as pawns in debates that are not about them.

But when it comes to human genetics, it is completely clear that having a Y chromosome = male. So yes, it's clear scientifically. Whether we then socially and culturally treat the individual as a man or a woman may depend more on their complicated physiology. But if we want to know their biological sex, we can ascertain that through a cheek swab which will tell us whether or not they have a Y chromosome. If one is present = male sex.

In some ways it might be better if it is these two in the final, as it would heighten the controversy - the scrutiny and outrage would surely be intense and might be such that women's sport is returned to women but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Why can we assume that?

He is xy and he has been through male puberty. They are all alleging that he has dsd which he may or may not. The type of dsd he has can only occur in males. He is fully male. This is why they are having to fluff this so much to create confusion. There is no ambiguity, he is male and should not be fighting women.
this is possibly a new form of legal doping as people will readily accept what they view as a defective male as a woman because they don’t view women as fully human only as defective males and also as welcoming support servants for defective males.
there is no expectation on men to accept or make room for a male who is seen as defective because male athletes are serious and real humans
its only controversial because it’s boxing.
womens sports have been struggling for years with this.
laurel Hubbard, lia Thomas, caster semenya. They didn’t even need to bother to hide their maleness.

I would think intersex is a likely possibility. I think the cases of folk who are intersex it's a lot harder to rule than in the cases of men transgendering into women.

intersex’ is an outdated term for DSD

It's amazing you got to the age of being able to post on this website and do not know simple biological facts about why a man is different from a woman and the link to chromosomes, XX and XY.

Hé is not claiming to be trans. Trans is nothing to do with this at all. He is claiming that he is a biological woman. If he has an intersex condition he is still either male or female. There is no inbetween.

He was NOT born with a vagina. Only females have a vagina. He might very well have been born with ambiguous genitalia, which in some poorer countries might have been labelled as 'girl' (becasue particularly in muslim societies, what parent wants a boy with a deformed or under developed penis). That is NOT the same thing as being born with a vagina.

Much of the under virilization will have been corrected at puberty anyway (assuming as all the evidence points to he has the DSD 5ARD) and he CLEARLY has an obvious penis now. Much like my son's tiny penises with little barely visble testicles turned into huge man willies surrounded by hairy balls almost overnight at 11/12.

Identity politics doesn't trump the power of biology and the elegance of 100s or thousamds of years of evolution I am afraid.

I have no idea. But there does seem to be confusion. Sometimes intersex babies are given the wrong gender at birth. Sometimes it's unclear.

When she went through male puberty?

Why do you not support “sex” testing? I ask as a woman who competed in sport and would have been disadvantaged had the opposition had the advantage of male puberty.

Gender has nothing to do with this. It is about sex.

OK thanks. I knew somebody who had a relative with this condition. So I have sympathy. Which does seem to be lacking in a lot of posts.

If any of you understood what you were on about, then fair.

She's lost 9 matches - surely if she were male, she would have won them all? Carini has admitted she overreacted and wishes to apologise.

Meanwhile, a poor woman is being caught up in all of this, because she doesn't look womanly enough for some people.

As has been repeatedly explained on this thread, scientifically sex is determined by more than genetics. There are multiple factors /
components to sex development. This isn’t about society or culture , it’s a matter of biology. XY is the usual male patterned chromosome, but having XY chromosomes does not always make a person male.

Most people’s sympathy evaporated when a man, who may or may not have a DSD, punched a woman.

Sex is absolutely determined by genetics alone. The confusion is most people seem to think chromosomes = genes.

Justifying someone being in a women's category because they had internal testes and their sex was not recognised until puberty is like someone trying to enter a weight class that they are far too big for on the grounds that they used to be that size ten years ago.

Adult men should not be competing in women's sports.

Child medical checks, particularly in area where genetic DSDs are known to cluster, should include a simple test at a very young age, preferably early infancy, to ensure that children are given support appropriate to their sex as early as possible.

Does your relative use this as a reason to benefit themselves in women's sport?

If not great, I hope they're living their best life.

If they are then that's where the sympathy ends.

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