Genuine question re pensioner fuel payment cut

[Katypp]

Just this: How would the Labour supporters react if three weeks into a new Conservative Government, the chancellor cut the winter fuel payment to any pensioner with an income of more than £11k?
Would you think it was a reasonable thing to do or would it be considered cruel because it was the Tories implementing it, not Labour?
I would imagine Angela Raynor, Yvette Cooper and Wes Streeting would have been very vocal and worried about it.
Would the public finances argument wash if it was a Tory Government? It didn't when Cameron came into power.
What's different?

It would have been a very sensible thing to do. The reason the Tories didn’t is that pensioners make up such a large part of their voter base, so we’ve had a decade of looking after their interests while working age people and children struggle.

Why can't people spell Angela Rayner's surname properly?

Let’s hope the triple lock goes soon as well.

Using wording like 'would an argument wash' sounds like you've already made up your mind, so why are you asking one here, except to goad?

I don’t think a lot of voters are that happy about even though it’s Labour.

the Conservatives wouldn’t want to alienate pensioners to that degree as they form a large part of their votes so wouldn’t have done it.

On balance, it should be quite a sensible thing to do as it stops the expense of means testing but obviously those who just exist off their state pension and would find it very hard to supplement their income in their old age are now poorer than those who have pension credit and you can see why they’re so angry about it.

Labour are the party of higher taxes and the public sector. They will need to raise taxes somewhere as well - I think it should be CGT and income tax rather than reducing pensions relief but who knows. They don’t care about pensioners as much as other sections of the electorate.

I'd have still agreed with it. I don't begrudge older people anything, however if there isn't enough to go around those with the least should be prioritised.

I've spoken to a lot of wealthy pensioners who were frankly embarrassed to get the winter fuel payment. Quite a few just donated it to charity.

To be clear, I broadly agree with it as well and think RR is brave to implement it. However, I think the cut-off point is too low. I also think other pensioner benefits such as free bus passes should be up for debate too.
By the same token, I think universal free school meals should come under scrutiny too.
I am more interested in how people think Labour would react had the Tories implemented it?
@SeeSeeRider thanks for your valuable contributions to the thread.

DH and I have maybe 25 years to go until retirement, and we have all four parents alive. We all support means testing the Winter Fuel Payment, but we are all unanimously against scrapping the triple lock, which they and DH and I think would be a step too far. Politically, DH and I are both lefties, we are both ex-Labour people who voted Green in the general election. My parents are both staunch Labour still, DH's mum and dad are Lib Dem, but they voted Labour in the GE.

Yes, it’s not the wealthy pensioners who are bothered by it - that’s fine. It’s the people who paid into the system and built up their credits and worked in poorly paid jobs before auto enrolment so that they only get the state pension and THEY mind. Not all pensioners are rich!

The state pension is not very much to live on with energy prices as they are. The WFA was targeted help for that.

it’s a shame the cut off point couldn’t have been £18k income a year. But that’s cripplingly expensive to implement.

I can't believe how Labour votes are supporting this.

11k a year and no help if we have a long and cold winter.

Yes means test it, but those that have worked or cared for children in low paid jobs are the ones that are hit by this.

@Katypp

thanks for your valuable contributions to the thread.

Well, they now have 3 thanks in total, so some people must like them. 😀

Who are those with the least though? A pensioner on £11k is surely one of those?

Clearly some people are not keen on difficult questions and prefer smart arse smokescreen instead

£11k is the minimum pension credit, many people will receive more than that, especially with a disability. As @InterestQ stated means testing it any other way would be too expensive.

On pension credit the person will have no rent or council tax to pay and access to other schemes and grants.

These days politics is about attacking the other party so I'm sure Labour would have hissed and booed if the Tories had made this change.

Presumably for the same reason they write ‘Kier’ Starmer.

Yeah, right, sure, hun.

There would be moral outrage.

My politics are down the middle and it always amuses me to see how the left consider themselves morally pure, and how often voters seem to reflect that.

The left and right are no better than each other and Starmer is a particularly odious example of the says what suits at the time politician.

Well as you clearly have absolutely nothing useful or sensible to add, I won't bother responding to you from now on

You're just indulging in a rather silly anti-Labour rant, as evidenced by your snippy attitude, inability to spell a Cabinet Minister's name, and emotive, loaded language. What do you expect?

They’ve got five years to prove that all the booing, hissing and negativity they showed in opposition is backed by better ideas rather than just bile.
We are pensioners, in the line for losing the payment because our joint income is around £35K. I don’t mind missing out if the money is used to support something constructive like Sure Start or useful apprenticeships.
But I’m also pleased they kept the two child benefit ruling, and hope that continues.

I agree with this. Some of the comments I have read on MN recently about this cut are disgusting. The middle class on here have no idea how much a lot of pensioners struggle. People now wanting the £10 Christmas bonus scrapped and bus passes scrapped.

I thought we were supposed to look after the vulnerable in our society. How can anyone be so cruel to begrudge an elderly person an extra £10 at Christmas or a free bus pass to be able to get out and about. Surely elderly people deserve to have a little bit of extra comfort in their twilight years.

Yes the WFA should be means tested, but for those pensioners who are just above the threshold to get pension credit, they are really going to struggle this winter. Elderly people feel the cold so much more, they can't help that. There will be a lot more hospital admissions this year.

I would have been outraged… and I am outraged that Labour have done this too - I am a Labour voting pensioner.

On MN there is a widespread belief that pensioners are mostly wealthy, not feeling the COLC at all, and can manage sky high winter bills and henceforth live on a dwindling income in real terms so the triple lock can be abandoned.

Good for you all with your wealthy cruise-going ILs…

Meanwhile, everyone I know is living frugally and quite fearful of the future.

I am not saying the WFP should be paid across the board, but the threshold hold is WAY too low. People in good occupational pensions, index linked public sector, big savings pots etc, all pay TAX. It ought to be easy peasy to set a threshold of income, identified through HMRC , above which the payment is not made.

Lots of pensioners are not enjoying comfortable incomes at all.

We weren’t feckless and greedy… lost if reasons;
If we bought flats or a house the most common thing to do was buy an endowment, at which point we were told that it would pay off the mortgage AND give us a sum for retirement. Then it all went tits up and many people were left with a shortfall on mortgage, never mind money for cruises.

Other people spent more than half their working life before 60 believing they would get a pension at 60. Then thought ‘ok I’ll work till 66’ but got ill or worn out , or dud last minute saving but couldn’t save enough

Many of us worked our whole employed lives with no employer contribution at all, until the last legal minute, at the lowest legal level.

Many of us just never earned much. No free childcare hours etc…

Had savings but lost to divorce

Many reasons.

Just because YOU know wealthy pensioners does not mean it’s the whole picture.

The threshold should not have been set so low.

I agree re bus passes. My partner has just turned 60. Fit and well. Working FT, enjoying it and no intention of retiring. Yet has free travel!

I think I would have been delighted with this cut, whoever thought of it. We need to find sustainable cuts that don't cause hardship, to fund areas where lack of money is causing massive, long term issues.

We need money in schools. Not funding schools properly has lead to a generation of children who were not given a chance to reach their potential - that is going to cost the country billions for decades as these people go through adulthood and need more support than they should have done