Genuine question re pensioner fuel payment cut

[Katypp]

Just this: How would the Labour supporters react if three weeks into a new Conservative Government, the chancellor cut the winter fuel payment to any pensioner with an income of more than £11k?
Would you think it was a reasonable thing to do or would it be considered cruel because it was the Tories implementing it, not Labour?
I would imagine Angela Raynor, Yvette Cooper and Wes Streeting would have been very vocal and worried about it.
Would the public finances argument wash if it was a Tory Government? It didn't when Cameron came into power.
What's different?

The bus pass should definitely stay free and available, it’s essential for those with poor mobility and low incomes to be able to get around. Our local shuttle bus covers the run from hospital to town to supermarket and is invariably stuffed with people older than me.

Not all pensioners need the winter fuel payment. My dad didn’t. He had 4 private pensions plus his state pension. Those that are on pension credits won’t be affected and rightly so but don’t forget ex pats in Spain get the winter fuel allowance and that’s ridiculous

We've had years of people declaring that they of course, donate it because they can afford it. At the time, it was also cheaper to just pay it to everybody than to means test it, as there wasn't any Real Time assessment or payment structure in place.

Now, due to the HMRC/UC setup and rollout, there's a comparatively cheap way of setting up automated payments on the basis of income and entitlements. It's therefore a completely different environment than in earlier years, making it significantly cheaper to assess and pay to those most in need. I seriously doubt that had the conservatives won another election that they'd have kept it in place, particularly as they had already brought in laws that allowed them to access the banking details of everybody - including pensioners - under the guise of making sure that unmarried mums and dole claimants weren't getting extra undeclared income from somewhere.

So, you have years of people saying 'we don't need it, it should be means tested and we donate ours', a computerised system put into place by the previous government that allows for this to be done at a far lower cost than previously, changes in Law made by the previous government to make it possible to check what money is going into pensioners' bank accounts - and the fiscal necessity to make savings.

One of the rare occasions that the conservatives thought ahead and got everything all in place ready for a less politically risky/Leopards Eating Faces moment (that didn't arrive for them in the end) - and now people are complaining about it.

Free travel over 60 is only in London I thought. Not sure about Scotland, but elsewhere in England it is for over 65s only. Definitely over 65 where I live in the south east.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2024-the-essential-guide-to-understanding-poverty-in-the-uk#:~:text=Children%20have%20consistently%20had%20the,%2F95%20to%202021%2F22.

The age group most likely to be in poverty in the UK is children. Pensioners are the joint least likely to be in poverty. Why they should get additional benefits (state pension apart) which others don’t get is beyond me. We are storing up problems for decades to come by prioritising older people over younger ones. There is absolutely nothing left wing about it.

We have a joint gross income of 80k, no mortgage and the winter fuel allowance was totally unnecessary and needed to go. Both past retirement.

I agree re bus passes. My partner has just turned 60. Fit and well. Working FT, enjoying it and no intention of retiring. Yet has free travel!

Do they bother using it though? Because most in their position would be driving. Or cycling if they are fit and eco-conscious. Many who are entitled to a bus pass don’t bother applying.

@Macaroni46 in most parts of the country free bus passes only kick in once you reach pension age (or the corresponding pension age for a woman born on the same day). You also need to bear in mind that free bus passes encourage people whose driving skills may be deteriorating to make fewer journeys by car.. It's not just a financial thing.

What about the pensioners who don't receive pension credits because they are just slightly over the cut off point, do you think it's fair for them?

But not from age 60. At least bring it in line with retirement age.

Well good for you if you don't need it, but many pensioners do.

I support removing it and am Labour voter.

What is needed is a targeted programme to help poorer pensioners make their homes more energy efficient and/or downsize to cheaper to heat housing, not flinging money randomly at people regardless of income or need in the hope it will help some afford to to heat drafty inefficient housing.

The other way to do it is similar to child benefit remove it from better off people via the taxation system.

People ARE outraged about it. Sure, the wealthiest don't need it but once again it's the ones in the middle who will suffer. Work hard all your life, build up a modest pension pot that takes you slightly over the cut off point and yoi are screwed. Might as well have sat on your arse with your hand held out, you'll be in clover.
Stealing from the elderly? I hope Kier is very proud of himself

@2dogsandabudgie

"Free travel over 60 is only in London I thought. Not sure about Scotland, but elsewhere in England it is for over 65s only. Definitely over 65 where I live in the south east."

Ah I didn't know that. Makes sense.
London needs to change to 65 then, in my opinion.

I'm not saying get rid of free bus passes. I'm saying raise the age at which one qualifies.

So because more pensioners are wealthy, the non wealthy, on 11k a year, shouldn't be looked after?

This also disproportionately affects women who are more likely to only have a state pension.

I think the country needs to get back on its feet and some decisions have to be made that not everyone will agree with

Rather than targeting people who have worked all their lives, they should be looking at those who refuse to work.
It might be surprising how many people would suddenly want to work if the golden goose stopped laying eggs

Yes, definitely.

So basically you're saying you couldn't give a shit about an elderly person struggling to heat their home.

Yes the country needs to get back on its feet but I'm shocked you think targeting the vulnerable is the way to do it. It could have been means tested.

@Lilysgoneshopping yes that should be looked at also but I do wonder, as we produce very little now, where people are going to work. Back in the day we had factories so there were always jobs. I don’t have the answers but we are in a holy mess

I think there would have been moral outrage from the usual suspects. I’m a cynical about politicians these days but still more of a lefty. Can’t be doing with all the people with simplistic “Tory bad” and I’m a virtuous person because I vote Labour nonsense. it’s infantile and intolerant.

I generally approve of the cut but I do see the point that some people on the cusp will be impacted. That said, pensioners just on benefits still get a much higher income than their working age equivalent.

This 100%.

I suspect many pensioners on basic state pensions who don't qualify for additional benefits and who are no longer fit enough to drive might disagree with you about ending the triple lock.

Just a couple of examples of how being old can result in increased expenses:

Our nearest hospitals are 6 and 14 miles away. Some medical specialities, for example, the eye clinic, stroke unit, cardio-electrophysiology and kidney and urinary departments are based at the hospital which is 14 miles away. In a year or so, the nearest A & E department will close and be relocated 14 miles away.

If we need to see a consultant or have tests at either hospital there is no direct bus service from our village. To attend appointments by taxi costs nearly £100 for the round trip. To go by taxi to the closest of the two hospitals costs around £48.

Some older people are on one or more prescription meds that make them feel cold resulting in higher heating bills and from this autumn will no longer receive the additional winter fuel payments.

Last year's triple lock increase was wiped out by the annual increase in our rates and water rates charges.

Yes, some pensioners are enjoying cruises but many are not and will struggle with the increases in fuel costs over the last few years.