Genuine question re pensioner fuel payment cut

[Katypp]

Just this: How would the Labour supporters react if three weeks into a new Conservative Government, the chancellor cut the winter fuel payment to any pensioner with an income of more than £11k?
Would you think it was a reasonable thing to do or would it be considered cruel because it was the Tories implementing it, not Labour?
I would imagine Angela Raynor, Yvette Cooper and Wes Streeting would have been very vocal and worried about it.
Would the public finances argument wash if it was a Tory Government? It didn't when Cameron came into power.
What's different?

I don't care who does this. It needs to be done.

As an age group pensioners are wealthier than other groups. They consume more services and they need to be contributing - don't tell me they already did - it's not true, and it's not enough.

We all need to be paying more so that we can invest in public services and the future - which will benefit all of us.

I do wish Labour would start increasing Capital gains tax, tax on second homes, tax on wealth rather than starting at the bottom.

I think it is disgraceful whoever is doing it. On MN everyone will say that their parents have loads of money, don’t need it etc etc but most pensioners do not. They are really struggling, state pension is very low and not many qualify for pension credit. I work for social services and we get hundreds and hundreds of calls every winter from people who can not afford to heat their homes. This will just make it worse. Not to mention the cost of means testing these benefits and the costs that are passed on to local authorities who have to pick up the pieces when people can’t afford heat and food

Well, well, well, another excuse to bash pensioners. Shocker.

That’s not necessarily the case - they could be 62 for example and not in great health. Also uc claimants get less than half the state pension/pension credits to live on and generally don’t have savings.

A single person on uc is in much worse poverty than pensioners.

We’re debating a particular state benefit

With all benefits there is a line and whilst the two women pensioners in my road who I am friendly with will be fine there are plenty who will be a few pounds over pension credit limits who will suffer. Plus triple lock, all this intergenerational hatred maybe people wanting it to end will one day if lucky enough live to a great age and regret their calling for it.

Means testing benefits is far too expensive plus assets can be liquid or not. So means testing is never ever perfect.

As a staunch Labour voter I feel it goes against the spirit of standing up for non means tested benefits. Re Tories and pensioners, they took away the free tv licence.

There are things they could have done to rethink the winter fuel payment. When an elderly relative passed away before the payment of the winter fuel payment, their daughter was given the payment as part of the estate because her parent was still living in the qualifying week. Things like that don’t need to happen.

Winter Fuel Allowance would not be necessary if.........wait for it........the cost of energy, (you know, because people have the sheer audacity to want to be warm, clean, and able to cook), was not so extortionately high, and unaffordable for many.
Or is that too simplistic?

It's not intergenerational hatred.

It's intergenerational unfairness. It needs to be tackled.

https://www.if.org.uk/research-posts/left-behind-a-decade-of-decline/

@yeesh MN is dominated by the middle class so they have wealthier parents. and I agree completely with you. I volunteer at a food project and see just how poor some pensioners are.

Agree the threshold is too low. I'm really surprised labour did this. I work for a charity for older people and many now feel really worried about what is to come next. Agree with waht previous poster said though about Pension credit threshold, it is not this low for many. If a pensioner gets a disability benefit ( and judging by the number of AA form I complete a month) many many do and this pulls many more people into being eligible for Pension credit with a much higher income than 11k.

My mum is on pension credit, so I think she will still receive this. I know not everyone is in the same position as her but she has nearly 10 k in the bank, money under her mattres, money in a couple of cupboards around her house and she’s just paid for my Daughters driving lessons. She’s worked around about 5 years of her working life.
To me this seems madness

So let's not punish poor pensioners, let's work to support the most vulnerable in society.

Fuck me, I'm sounding more socialist than our current government.

Maybe the level should have been set at the personal allowance so only those pensioners who don’t pay tax get it?

One of the very unhappy pensioners in the pub this week was calling the Chancellor of the Exchequer Rachel Thieves which seems to sum things up well.

But those that worked all their life and don't get pension credit but the basic state pension don't get it.

Labour has managed to punish the lowest paid for working. These pensioners would have been better off not working. It is madness.

I bet he wouldn’t have called her that if she’d taken the money from families with small children. He’ll just have to cut down on the pub visits, won’t he?

It was a charity event for lonely pensioners that I volunteer for, the soft drinks and tea/coffee are free. We even provide transport and for most of the users it is the only social thing they do all month as they are too skint to go out much.

My Mum used to go for lunch at Harvey Nichols with hers and give any left over to the Grandkids

There is more of this to come.

The triple lock needs to go, IHT needs to be increased and care needs to be reformed.

It will happen IMO because people have handed Labour the majority they need to be confident about doing this.

I hope this is what people expected.

It is too simplistic. Energy is expensive to produce and we live in a cold climate. The energy market is heavily regulated to ensure we get energy as close to cost as possible but without all the suppliers going out of business.

what do you suggest- forcing suppliers to sell for less than cost? How would they fund that?

I did vote Labour in this election but am not happy with the level of cut off that has been decided on. My Stepmother is affected, she’s just over the threshold for pension credit she says, it will affect her.

My Dad promised her before he died she will never be cold again as she used to be freezing in her old house and I want to keep his promise so am preparing to work out a way to help her so need to come up with a plan as currently not working as 3 weeks post surgery and there’s enough financial burden on DH currently.

The cut off may be too low, and perhaps Labour might listen to that criticism and add some other qualifying benefits to make WFA available to more - but some form of means testing absolutely needed to happen. The triple lock commitment should mean pensions go up a bit every year which should cover WFA for most.

Exactly!

My mum is a tiny bit over the threshold for pension credits, and has no private pension as they didn't exist in the way they do now. She got auto enrolled not long before retirement and had £1,500 sat in there which they released in full and paid for repairs on the house.

She absolutely needs the WFA.

It should be means tested, not wiped out with a ridiculously low cut off.