To think the Khelif issue is now raising more big questions in sport

[FishersGate]

Biological men should not be fighting women how is this even happening ?? Two 'women' failed eligibility tests by the IBA. Yet the IOC deem them suitable it's mind boggling

The crux of this is that it isn't good enough for the boxers in question (nor those supporting them) to simply say they were 'assigned female' and that's it. Discussion over.

None of us know the medical background, it may be complex or it may be something specific and entirely in isolation (xy but with genital malformation).

Everything known points to the gender tests being correct, and these two biological men should not be in the ring with women. Everything opposing that conclusion is just noise, and it's noise that is being driven in no small part by the gender debate. It's not a separate issue for either side of that debate, it's a significant backdrop.

Really, why would the IBL lie? What would they get out of it? Why are you saying a sporting governing body is “discredited”

They have stated that they have found that the physical profile of the boxers excluded them from women boxing on gender criteria and that this was not decided simply by testosterone levels.

You are clutching at straws based solely on the IBLs desire to keep confidentiality for the two people in question.

Why are you so keen to protect one persons feelings over what the experts have deemed to be a risk to women athletes.

So we’ve moved from ‘you’re all racists’ to ‘he doesn’t win all the fights’ and now to ‘well boxing is dangerous anyway so why not let men hit women’.

Any other excuses to come or do you want to just own your stance and say outright that you support sanctioned male violence against women?

Some of those babies absolutely were “assigned” a gender. They were dressed in feminine ways, given feminine toys, their hair grown long and styled in a feminine way, their true sexual preference ignored or denied so they were pushed towards heterosexuality instead - all the while many of them fighting against it because they never felt feminine. That was absolutely having a gender “assigned”, and many of them also had their sexual organs operated on and consequently lost sexual function and fertility as a result. Some adults are still discovering the truth about their own bodies and how they were born and how they were operated on, because many of those families also keep the truth from their children.

this is certainly not the universal experience for those born with differences of sex anatomy, but it is a common story. And in those cases gender WAS assigned at birth, as well as sex.

Women with Swyer syndrome have XY chromosomes but they don't have an SRY gene on their Y chromosome. They develop as female, with a female genital tract but no ovaries. They don't have testicles to secrete male levels of androgens and don't have any advantage over XX females in terms of sport.

Generally they're diagnosed (if no amnio or cvs during pregnancy) when they don't get a period at puberty. They can get usually get pregnant and give birth using donor eggs and IVF.

There would be no controversy and we wouldn't have heard anything about it, if the Algerian boxer had Swyer syndrome.

I agree this is undignified.

But until the IOC instigate proper testing to protect women, this is what's going to happen.

Descend into insanity?! Hilarious! Are you 12?

This silly argument about the general risks of boxing making it ok for blokes to smash women in the face is risible nonsense. The risks of being hit by a male are hugely higher than being hit by a female and that is why it is dangerous and unfair to expect females to box with Khelif. Engage your brain and stop trying to bend reality to fit with some off-the-shelf misogynistic ideology that harms women.

Why are you more concerned about Khelif than the other competitors?
What makes him more worth in your eyes and why?

Is it known what the IBA used as the basis for the test?

They haven't said. But they define women as XX chromosomes.

And they have said it wasn’t based on testosterone, so what does that leave other than chromosomes?

Did I say she should be allowed to compete? No. I actually said the opposite.

She has worked incredibly hard, just as hard as everyone else. Of course if they allow her to compete she will, she's been told its OK for her to compete, so she's going to, she's a sportsperson. Sportspeople often take on competitions with people they know they outcompete, that's literally the point. A boxer isn't going to say "no I'm not going to fight that guy, he's not as good as me" you see many many fights where one of the fighters has a natural physical advantage over the other. So I don't think she's wrong for wanting to compete knowing she has a natural advantage if the organisation is telling her she's allowed to.

I don't think the organisation should be allowing her to though, but I also don't think they should be allowing people to use specialist, expensive equipment to make it easier in other sports either, the shooting for example.

But the vitriol and cruel comments and deliberately calling her a man are absolutely disgusting and just make me think these people have more hatred in their heads than brains.

If you found out that your friend that you'd known as a girl her whole life found out that she actually has XY chromosomes and a genetic disorder but wanted to continue living as the same person she had always been instead of changing her whole identity would you refuse to call her by the same name you'd always called her, start calling her a man and he, and saying she wasn't allowed to use the same toilets as you becuaee she's a MAN and HE shouldn't be pretending to be a woman so she can be in womens spaces?

Why haven’t you answered this question? It’s been posed to you several times.

Why are you more concerned about Khelif than the other competitors?

So come on, tell us. Why are his feelings more important than those of the other competitors and why is their physical safety of less importance than his feelings to you?

Being male or female isn't arbitrary.

Yes boxing is a dangerous sport, and one of the ways to manage risk to women competitors is to only have them box other women. Make boxers hit with 162% more force than women do.

You argument is rather like arguing against speed restrictions on the road, as driving causes injuries and deaths anyway.

It's not made your racism disappear, anyway. WOC as a convenience and prop to arguments, ignored and discarded when inconvenient. Repulsive.

genuinely insane how're we're treating her like an abomination for nothing more than having a higher testosterone level.

No. Not an abomination - male, and a cheat, and prepared to put women's lives at significant risk to win.

I wouldn’t agree with my ‘friend’ competing in women’s sport. I’d feel sad for my friend, but I wouldn’t change the entire field of women’s sport to accommodate my friend’s feelings.

What happens if one of these female boxers dies at the hands of a trans one?
Good for Carini for pulling the plug and walking away from this, female athletes in all sports should refuse to take part those with xy chromosomes. That would soon sort out the decision makers.

It's nothing to do with colour. So why bring racism into it. Russians were accused of having male attributes for years.

That's not correct.

They were tested by the International Boxing Association last year, who determined that they are not female and have a competitive advantage over female boxers.

The IOC no longer recognises the authority of the International Boxing Association, so they made their own rules up and decided that these two boxers could compete as women because it says F in their passports and they've competed as women before.

I am afraid she became a villain when she chose a sport where you hit women when she has clearly gone through male puberty.

Arbitrary?! Yes biology is so much more arbitrary than an F on some man made paperwork 🤣

You’re just making yourself look silly now.