To think the Khelif issue is now raising more big questions in sport

[FishersGate]

Biological men should not be fighting women how is this even happening ?? Two 'women' failed eligibility tests by the IBA. Yet the IOC deem them suitable it's mind boggling

'the Italian realised with that first punch she was not going to win, bowed out citing too much pain (in boxing? really? did she think she was there to be licked by kittens?) and then made a very strongly suggestive comment about sparring with her brother as a child so is used to fighting 'males' '

No fucking words. What a fucking shameful post.

Italian boxer Angela Carini has revealed she wants to apologise to her opponent Imane Khelif after withdrawing from their Olympic fight within 46 seconds.
Algerian Khelif defeated Carini in the opening round of the women's welterweight event in Paris on Thursday after striking her with two strong blows.
Carini later revealed her decision to abandon the fight was necessary to 'preserve my life', after she explained how she had 'never felt a punch' like the one Khelif inflicted.
'All this controversy makes me sad,' she told Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport.
'I'm sorry for my opponent, too. If the IOC said she can fight, I respect that decision.'
'It wasn't something I intended to do (by not shaking hands),' Carini said.
Read More
EXCLUSIVE
Savannah Marshall speaks out on Olympic boxing controversy that saw Imane Khelif win in 46 seconds

'Actually, I want to apologise to her and everyone else. I was angry because my Olympics had gone up in smoke.'
'(I would) embrace her (if I met her again).'

Have you just pulled that out of your arse, completely ignoring all the evidence presented on several threads on Mumsnet and all over the media?

Absolute nonsense.

She said it herself - she was angry because her olympics had gone up in smoke.

Because she was forced to fight someone who has a Y chromosome and was found to have an unfair advantage over female boxers.

Tell me you wouldn't be furious.

Kellie Harrington fought her and won is all I am saying. Kellie has never had a question about her sex and she won fair and square.

We really need to educate more people on the intersex problem

We could start by letting people know that "intersex" is a misleading term that the DSD community has asked not to be used because it is offensive and ignorant. It implies that people with DSDs are not men or women and they are. They just have a variation of development along the sex pathway. They are not between sexes, they are not both sexes, they are not a third sex. They are male or female, with a variation of development that is recognisable only because it exists in a male or female sexed body. (My lack of testes is not a DSD but it would be in a male body.)

They are also extremely rare, occurring in well under 1% of people, although there are ongoing attempts to classify hormonal issues such as PCOS as DSDs to obfuscate the fact that a disproportionate number of people with male line DSDs end up in sports and always competing with women. But a woman with PCOS isn't a man and a man with a male line DSD isn't a woman.

She was born female.

Oh, you were present, were you?

Yes we saw that, she was angry because her olympics went up in smoke, she was cheated of course she was angry!

I still don't believe that she apologised because she actually wanted to.

Amy Broadhurst, Who Defeated Imane Khelif, Questions 'XY chromosomes' Gender Test (thesportster.com)

Another woman who beat Khelif.

Yes, I locked eyes with you over the table at the time - good lord 🙄

So you don't actually know anything at all, you're just speculating based on stuff you've read online. As you were.

Stop with this bullshit, we know other women have beaten him, but that isn't relevant to this discussion, it's just a distraction.

IBA president Umar Kremlev said DNA tests “proved they (Khelif and Lin ) had XY chromosomes and were thus excluded."

LAST YEAR.

They are not women.

Pretty much like everyone else on the thread.

The emotional response only ever goes one way with positions such as we are seeing using emotional pleas as the authority and not science.

Not once was there any consideration given to the female athlete who missed out knowing (then or finding out in the future) that they missed out because the competitor had an unfair advantage but that they, the athlete who lost out, was considered acceptable collateral to maintain someone else’s happiness.

We have learned so much about inclusion in sport over the past two decades since sex testing was dropped because campaign groups used this same emotional reasoning, just as we saw on this thread, to allow the wider group of males with specific DSDs to compete with female people. I remember reading the reports and the articles those campaign groups used and it was always emotional response supporting the male athlete.

I now consider such reasoning as misogynistic. Because the emotional needs of the female athlete who has been told by those who support inclusion, even if there is a proven advantage, that they are acceptable collateral has been disregarded.

The female athlete has been considered not important by all those who use the argument based on emotions rather than science and material reality.

That is what happens when all a poster has is ‘think of this poor ‘woman’, ‘she’ is the one we should be centring.’

As am I, but I'm going by the fact that it's probable given the available evidence that Khelif is a male with a DSD.

What I want is a return to the cheek swab to test for sex, then this situation won't happen again.

On 21 November 2019, Kremlev was nominated as Chairman of AIBA Marketing Commission at the AIBA Extraordinary Executive Committee Meeting; he later organized AIBA Continental Forums for the countries of the Americas, Oceania and Asia in 2020.[15][16]
He won a vote of 57.33 per cent to replace Mohamed Moustahsane of Morocco to serve as AIBA's President, on 12 December 2020. The election was held virtually at AIBA’s ongoing congress due to the COVID-19 pandemic. It was attended by 155 National Federations from five continents.[17]
The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has been concerned about the IBA under Kremlev's leadership.[18] Kremlev has ties to Vladimir Putin, has moved much of the IBA's operations from Lausanne, Switzerland to Russia, has spent heavily on apparent self-promotion, and has opposed independent appointment of judges and referees.[18][19] The IOC has also been alarmed by the fact that the IBA's only sponsor is a Russian company (Gazprom) that supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine.[18] In September 2022, the IBA voted against a presidential election, cementing Kremlev's position as the organization's president.[18]

Yes more stuff pulled from the internet but unless her parents are on this thread I thnk the internet is all we really have to go by.

I would expect some women to beat him. By professional standards he is a very poor male boxer. Some elite women will beat comparatively shit men; nobody has claimed every man beats every woman. It doesn't mean men don't have a competitive advantage and it doesn't mean a shit male athlete belongs in women's sports. He's taken a place from a woman who ranks higher in her sex class than he would rank in his.

Yes, this seems the fairest way to do it.

So if you doubt the IBA - retest them now.

I think retesting is the best option definitely.

This is the long and short of it for me.

The existence of a male in a female sports competition that loses is merely an indication that a mediocre male athlete was beaten by an exceptional female. It says fuck all about competitive advantage.

You have perpetuated a logical fallacy as have the others on this thread.

If a competitor attached a motor onto their bike and rode in the Tour de France and lost, does that mean that competitor didn’t have an unfair advantage? Because they didn’t win?

Or, does it mean they are a mediocre competitor who couldn’t win despite having advantage?