To think the Khelif issue is now raising more big questions in sport

[FishersGate]

Biological men should not be fighting women how is this even happening ?? Two 'women' failed eligibility tests by the IBA. Yet the IOC deem them suitable it's mind boggling

Apart from the posters saying she’s male

Says who? An Algerian doctor.

Well that's an interesting article.

Due to this condition, Imane Khelif's chromosomes developed into X and Y that is male chromosome and she has higher testesterone compared to female athletes.

I didn't know chromosomes "develop", I thought you got 23 from your mother and 23 from your father when sperm and egg meet in the fallopian tube. My GCSE biology was a while ago though.....

Be honest.

And honestly, has the IOC said that these male people have XX chromosomes?

Or have the IBA been scapegoated here to distract from the appalling statements made by the OIC about passports and 'they previously competed' and be kind and inclusive?

I have not seen them contradict that these athletes are XY. But it is rather glaringly obvious that they are running distraction from that very fact.

Being recorded female because of ambiguous genitalia does not necessarily mean that someone is biologically female. Without appropriate testing mistakes can be made which only come to light when puberty does not proceed as expected.

What part of a being a male person means that this athlete 'is not male'?

Your posts at this point come across as 'shhhh! you are not allowed to say it, even though you are right'.

Explain in detail how this athlete is not 'male' using established and proven science.

If the athlete was assigned female at birth, it is an intersex issue.
We really need to educate more people on the intersex problem, the % of individuals with a variation of it is not as low as we may think.
We cannot blame anyone for being born a girl, grown as a girl/ woman and then finding out that they look a bit different to their friends, they really excell at sports and cannot have children.
I do not find it fair on the algerian athlete. And why is people calling her a male? Imagine how upset you would be if you do take a test and turns out so, and people start referring to you as male and accussing you of taking advantage. Plus, you do not have a womb, so you will never be able to have children.
If we match the italian boxer with me, I would not last 2 seconds. A single punch will take me out.
If we do go down the route of genetically testing everyone and testing for hormones, then I think we could all be rather surprised as how many people would fail one test or another, particularly on strength sports.

Chromosomes are determined at the moment of conception I believe.

No changes at all. In fact, I believe it is the sperm that carries the genes that determine sex and these cannot change. It is encoded into the sperm, if I remember correctly.

The prevalence for Differences of sex development resulting in ambiguous genitalia is 0.018%.

Your memory seems to be the same as mine. I remember discussing he injustice of Henry VIII's wives being blamed for him not having a male heir.

It's not about 'blame', it's about ensuring women can take part in sports safely and fairly.

If an athlete has gone through male puberty and has the strength of a male, it's not fair to compete against women.

You seem to be saying that we need to allow this male to beat women up because otherwise he'll be upset, but perhaps I've misunderstood.

Ah the old “no one knows their genetic make up” argument.

You’re posting on a forum largely populated by parents, when the majority of intersex conditions result in infertility… think that through

Yes, those of us who have grown, birthed, and breastfed babies would be forgiven for assuming we do know what sex we are.

It is a man, just because he's been lied to as a child that doesn't mean he gets to walk into that ring and cheat the way he did. Sure it must have been hard for him to find out he was a man, but that isn't my fault, it isn't yours and it certainly wasn't Angela's. He knew he was male when he stepped into that ring, he took a place from a woman and he dashed another ones hope and that isn't fair!

If they fail the genetic/hormone tests then they don't get to play it's as simple as that.

He wasn't lied to as a child FFS. She was born and medical professionals at the time assigned her female based on the way she presented physically.
She hasn't cheated. She is abiding by the rules set by the Olympics committee.

I imagine Khelif has known that they were male since they were a teenager, at least.

She was born female. There is no confusion. Some bloody algerian doctor made some comment incorrectly years ago and in my opinion the Italian realised with that first punch she was not going to win, bowed out citing too much pain (in boxing? really? did she think she was there to be licked by kittens?) and then made a very strongly suggestive comment about sparring with her brother as a child so is used to fighting 'males' which started this horseshite to begin with.

Khelif was born female, never said she was trans, never said anything other than she is female as that is what she was born and has not had anything altered in any way. She looks butch but that is not her fault. She was defeated before by women and she never called their sex into things. The Italian girl is just a sore loser as far as I am concerned. Anyway she has now apologised and retracted what she said. She should be removed herself for causing this.

Yes he was, it would have become apparent at some point that he was not female, when he didn't develop breasts at puberty or when he was different to the other children, so instead of addressing the issue they just went along with what the Dr's said.
He knew he was male when he got in that ring therefore he cheated, just because the rules say he can fight doesn't mean he should have!

So what's your view on the IBA's tests and announcements?

That Italian girl has a name, her name is Angela Carini, she was cheated by this man and the organisation that allowed this to happen.

A sore loser my fat arse!

You do understand the history of previous tests and bans, yes?

Or does this comment:

'which started this horseshite to begin with'

Mean you are labouring under the impression that the debate stems from the boxing match yesterday?

Are you saying that this person’s sex was accurately identified at birth and that the chromosome test done by the IBA is false?

Or are you saying that once registered at birth as one sex, that even when an error is discovered that person remains that incorrect sex specification forever?

Or are you saying that a person who has XY chromosomes, with reported virilisation is not male if they were wrongly recorded at birth?

I don’t actually understand how a male with XY chromosomes and recorded virilisation as per testing is not a male person. Perhaps we need some clear explanations that are based only in established and proven science to explain.

Yes. When they did not menstruate would have resulted in testing, surely.

Ah yes - she had a time machine and travelled back to 2022 and 2023, and manipulated the IBAs testing.