To think the Khelif issue is now raising more big questions in sport

[FishersGate]

Biological men should not be fighting women how is this even happening ?? Two 'women' failed eligibility tests by the IBA. Yet the IOC deem them suitable it's mind boggling

I've never been, nor wanted to be a boxer.

But way back 30 years ago, when walking jacket manufacturers barely knew women existed, I used to get a choice of say 2 women's jackets or about 30 men's jackets. The shop staff used to say, "Oh, you can just wear a man's small one." Yeah, right, I'm just like a small man. The waists were in the wrong place, and, always, the sleeves were made for someone with arms like a gorilla...

Sorry, to clarify, crossdressers:

' ...must make a statement confirming they permanently use the preferred identity. They must also have a referee confirm their new identity and send us evidence if they have changed their name '

(Apologies, this seems a bit of a derail, but the IOC does say the criteria they use is a passport with 'female' on it. Different countries have different requirements for passport gender changes, of course.)

They are not. However, would the IOC have that information? Or would that be still held by the IBA.

Considering under the IOC regulations as per Mark Adams’ statements to the press, they don’t have just cause to do any testing or verification. The IOC allowed this to happen and can not change their policy this week.

And the IBA has a legal obligation to protect that information, don’t they?

Wouldn’t it be up to the individuals to make statements? And that is not going to happen.

It’s not just one man. It’s two men

and the men in the Zambian women’s football team who were also banned from playing in the woman’s African cup of nations

There are an awful lot of people on social media who are stating categorically that they know exactly what genitals Khelif has, how they grew up, why they did what they did and all sorts of other things that no one but Khelif and immediate family are likely to know. Everyone else, apparently, is "misinformed", "ignorant" or "bigoted".

Yep even my daughter was questioning it all earlier until I set her straight.

The IOC. should be using cheek swabs to determine the sex of competitors

very simple

Agreed: it's always interesting when people consider they've come up with a novel argument that is so extraordinary that it doesn't even occur to them to Google and check that it hasn't been around for years…

I agree with you, I'm just commenting on the previous posters who seemed to think those objecting to Khelif and Lin competing against women were being racist rather than basing our views on biological fact.

I stand with Sitora Turdibekova and Angela Carini! Those men are cheaters.

I'd cry too! They've both tried to be so brave and in Angela's case has obviiously felt the need to hedge her words with kindness for the cheating man she was assaulted by.

I am so fucking upset and angry for these women, it is so unfair and incredibly dangerous!😡

And again any sympathy I may have felt instantly evaporated and was replaced with contempt and disgust for Imane Khelif who not only is a fucking cheat, but worse also sexually assaulted poor Angela Carini after punching her in the face in the ring in front of the world - he should face charges!😡😡😡😡

You found this convincing?

Blimey. It uses the corruption controversy to discredit the IBA policy and testing. Do you believe that sporting federations should just release private medical records of athletes? Because that is what this author seems to think.

The author also then ignores that the IBA policy changed. That is why those athletes started being tested. That is like trying to leverage Lia Thomas’ previous inclusion in NCAA as a reason to then discredit why Thomas suddenly failed the testing for completion after the policy changed. It is laughable fuckwittery.

The author then fails to mention the IOC regulations that prioritise inclusion over fairness. As per Budgett’s statement after Tokyo Olympics. The one that also devolved responsibility to the international sporting federations to set their own policy.

And that therefore, the IOC welcomes male athletes into sport events meant to be protected for female people unless the sports federation for that sport has set a policy excluding those athletes. As FINA, WA, UCI , WR have.

IBA DID set the policy, but the IOC have ignored that policy. Why?

So, no. That is not a balanced view. That is sloppy and lazy writing.

This

It's a bit like the people who espouse the 'academic rigour' of the attacks on the Cass Review, no? The people who disdain the global leadership of the York group who performed the review in line with the publicly available guidelines on conducting them, and under the leadership of an excellent, experienced paediatrician. The ones who prefer the musings of a random law person in Harvard, a clueless self-styled journalist and others of similar ilk.

Sorry, I did wonder if had read it wrong lol.

I must say that I laughed at people giving higher credibility to Yale than York. When Yale published a study that was quickly discredited for making a wholly false conclusion about that very topic!

But this is the world we live in.

It actually fits perfectly.

Being a WOC is conditional on agreement with the ideology being pushed by people who support these Y chromosome havers in the female category. So Nicola Adams, a black woman who has won multiple Olympic golds, can be safely ignored. She's the wrong kind of black women. Turdibekova, an Asian woman, becomes a white woman when she cries at being expected to fight a bloke.

In both cases, their ethnicity is conditional and politicised, and white people on twitter can better speak for WOC than they are.

Considering that only approximately 0.018% of the population is intersex, it's an amazing coincidence that so many of them are Olympians...#eyeroll

All the complaints of 'hate' - people feel very strongly about men beating women. There are strong societal taboos - for good reason. Violence against women and girls is endemic, and horrific.

The arguments about fairness and what male inclusion does to women's sport pale into insignificance when you think about what it means for girls and women to watch males punch and hit them and be cheered on.

It's doing a lot of heavy lifting and enforcing that VAWG is acceptable and even admirable, broadening the context.

I'm curious why people will scold women for being 'unkind' or for 'hate', but have no apparent issue with a male, who knows he's male, beating a woman in public. Why is it women who get told off? Why are people's sympathy's so firmly stuck with the male, why do these people seem to be incapable of feeling empathy for the woman who must have been terrified, who was hurt, who has lost all she worked so hard for?

It's a grotesque illustration of how we are still told that men matter more. Men's feelings, wishes, dreams, ambitions, and desires matter more than women's safety, let alone women's feelings, wishes, dreams, ambitions and desires.

https://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/24493383.nandy-acknowledges-concern-getting-balance-right-amid-olympic-gender-row/

'I understand that the biological facts are far more complicated than is being presented on social media and in some of the speculation.
“But I think as sporting bodies try to get that balance between inclusion, fairness and safety, there is a role for government to make sure that they’ve got the guidance and the framework and the support to make those decisions correctly and it’s something that I’ll be talking to sporting bodies about over the coming weeks and months.”
She told BBC Radio Five Live that “biology matters, particularly when it comes to sports like boxing”.'

Crikey.

Yes but then several months (?) ago they underwent testing which confirmed they were men. At which point, decent humans would acknowledge with deep regret that they would have to switch to male category sport.

Not to mention that several YEARS ago, they underwent male puberty and clearly now look like men in many many ways. So that was a bit of a giveaway too.

However, they didn't. They decided to continue fighting women KNOWING they had a huge genetic and physical advantage. KNOWING they could seriously injure someone. They deserve the heat they are getting.

As a man what with having XY chromosomes. He knows he’s a man, as does Lin Yu-Ting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/c2j3jg51rg4o 😔